Major Biometric Breach, HIPAA Deadline Falls Flat, and the Microsoft AI Budget Blowout | Newsday

This transcription is provided by artificial intelligence. We believe in technology but understand that even the smartest robots can sometimes get speech recognition wrong. Major Biometric Breach, HIPAA Deadline Falls Flat, and the Microsoft AI Budget Blowout | Newsday [00:00:00] I'm Bill Russell, creator of this week Health, where our mission is to transform healthcare one connection at a time. Welcome to Newsday, breaking Down the Health it headlines that matter most. Let's jump into the news. Bill Russell: All right, it is News Day, and as always, News Day brings out the best. It brings out Drex DeFord in, uh, beautiful Seattle, uh, back from his, uh, his rave, and Sarah Richardson on vacation. Not really, still working, but, uh, down in some island south of Aruba somewhere, right? Sarah Richardson: Well, it's... I'm in Bonaire, and it's part of the ABC Islands of Aruba, Bonaire, and Curaçao. So Lesser Antilles, to be very specific. Bill Russell: For, for, I'm, Drex DeFord: I'm- The Old Lesser Antilles. Bill Russell: The Lesser Antilles. The ABC Islands. Well, I now Drex DeFord: feel like- Where are the Greater Antilles? Are there Greater Antilles? Sarah Richardson: Yeah. Yeah. It's just up [00:01:00] higher. Drex DeFord: Oh, okay. Sarah Richardson: Yeah, if you think about- All right ... the island chain, it's all the way around as it ends up basically close to Venezuela, so that whole Caribbean chain goes all the way down. But this Bill Russell: is- I'm gonna have to get my globe out. Sarah Richardson: Get your globe out. It's theoretically out of the hurricane zone- That's right ... but they do get some storms here every once in a while. All Bill Russell: right. So what's, what's the coolest thing you've seen? Sarah Richardson: Well, I've been diving for 26 years, and, uh, this is about my ninth or 10th trip to this location. But, uh, we got to go over to the east side, which isn't that common, earlier this week. And, uh, lots of turtles, lots of, uh, groups of eagle, spotted eagle rays, and, uh, some slipper lobsters, which are usually kind of obscure to find, but they were crawling around on the reef. So that was definitely one of the highlights. Um, there have been the, the, green sea turtles, but also a couple loggerheads floating around out there too, and some babies, which is always fun to see. So, um, just, you know, digging into my naturalist specialty that, I garnered once upon a time and identifying lots of underwater creatures. Bill Russell: Uh, and, uh, Drex, uh, coolest creature you saw at the rave? Drex DeFord: I went to [00:02:00] Grztronics at The Gorge, uh, this weekend, so, uh, saw a lot of great, uh, DJs, a lot of, uh, cool, fun people. Uh, yeah, it's always just a laugh riot at these things. And so, uh, so it was, yeah, it was great. It was a good time, good therapy. Bill Russell: Yeah, and I, and I just went and visited my, uh, my grandchild. So, um, our first grandchild, so a lot of fun. Um, spent a lot of time crawling around on the floor, and I'm not as young as I used to be. Drex DeFord: Um- My knees Sarah Richardson: are killing me. Can you still got up? You're s- Bill Russell: Hey, Drex, today we're gonna talk about data hoarding in healthcare. Um, Sarah and I both- uh, got a chance to, uh, to listen to your two-minute drill. It's, uh, it's interesting. I think it's a topic we sh- we should, uh, get broader, uh, reach to. So those who don't listen to your two-minute drill, um, you know, will, will get a, a little, uh, sneak peek into this. So t- talk a little bit about the New York situation and, and, and why it's, uh, distinct and, uh, I mean, from my perspective, a little troubling. Drex DeFord: Yeah. Well, [00:03:00] it's, uh, you know, the story is about New York City, uh, Health and Hospitals. Um, they've had, uh, a very long period of time where there was a breach going on. It started in November last year. Uh, they sort of figured it out in February and, and cut the bad guys off. But in the meantime... And then they just told, you know, patients and families about it, uh, just recently. So there was a fair gap between the end of the, "Oh, we figured out we're being... You know, we're in the middle of a breach." , Didn't really take things down as best I understand. The bad guys got in and sort of camped out and stole a bunch of stuff. And they stole a lot of the things that you would expect, um, while they're in there. Things like, you know- insurance plan information and policy information and, you know, medical info like diagnosis and medications and tests and image- imagery and billing and, uh, claims and payment information. You know, all that stuff is bad. Wow. But one, one of the things that they got ahold of was, um, biometric data, which is [00:04:00] kind of interesting because it's not something we necessarily think about a lot. But things like, you know, images that are fingerprints or palm prints, um, that kind of data. Uh, so that's problematic because you can rotate passwords and you can change, I mean, everything else. You... There's even actually a process to change your Social Security number, although it is very difficult and a, you know, giant pain in the neck. It can be done, but fingerprints and palm prints, those kinds of things are forever. So the question certainly comes up, so do you even know that you're storing this kind of stuff in your health system? Where are you storing it? Who has access to it? What third parties have access to it? And again, again, this was, uh, if I d- I don't think I said it yet. Um, I said it in the two-minute drill. It was a third-party breach, so this, this was a bad guy who came in through a third party. They haven't named the third party yet. But, um, you know, not something that they were, uh, you know, they were attacked directly. It was indirectly through [00:05:00] a, through a side door. Um, the other interesting thing is that they took a lot of, um, a lot of images, a lot of, like, photograph, uh, kinds of things. Um, interestingly enough, one of the things they're sort of figuring out is that with those photographs, as you know, uh, when you take a picture today, there's a lot of, like, geographic geolocation data that's embedded in that photograph now. Yeah, there's Bill Russell: a, Drex DeFord: there's a ton of meta- So even when you lose a picture, it's a lot more than just a picture. Yeah. And, um, that's all, that's all part of this collection of stuff. Bill Russell: Yep. We love metadata because it makes it easy to search pictures and find different things. Mm-hmm. Oh, this is a beach picture. This is a picture of Drex, and that kind of stuff. But meta- Show Drex DeFord: me all my pictures from Arkansas, right? Bill Russell: Or some- Yeah. But, you know, it, it, uh, reveals an awf- the metadata by definition is designed to reveal a lot about the images and the pictures. That's why, that's why it was put, put there. Sarah, what do you... Um, I'm not, I don't have a specific question for you. I want to come back to Drex with a specific question, but, uh, what, what are your thoughts on this? Sarah Richardson: I [00:06:00] watched the two-minute drill. This goes for me directly to what I would call permanent harm and some issues where, like, the minority report is becoming real. Because we are literally moving to a world where the biometrics are our identity, and if the health systems are sitting on that data and they don't necessarily understand some of the downstream consequences of losing it, then the patients who gave that data to the healthcare provider in a clinical context may not have consented to being exposed, copied, and in this case, I guess, weaponized. So what is your ethical obligation as a health system beyond the breach notice and, you know, the two years of credit monitoring, which we probably have from 20 different agencies? And there's some really interesting biometric data that's out there, and I went back and researched that BIPA law from Illinois that was back from 2008. They were way in front of it. But you really have to understand, to Drex's point, when you steal a fingerprint or a palm print or what will become likely our iris scanning, that data is [00:07:00] permanently compromised for future use, banking, border crossing, device authentication, healthcare access. And so it's really upon us to have to have really good data minimization policies in place, the BAAs, and con- vendor contracts to know how they're handling the biometric data. And if you asked a CIO today do they know where their biometric data lives and what those implications could be for the organization. Bill Russell: Do you even know if you have biometric data? I mean, so, yeah, I mean, Drex, you and I talked about this earlier. I mean, the, the inventory is, is the place to start. But I, and, and I think everybody knows that, so I, I don't want to go into the, you know, oh, of course, the, you know, we need to know where all of our data is. I think we all need... we all know that. We're just resource constrained to do that. My question to you, though, Drex, is if I'm a patient and I lost my biometric data, and it's my fingerprints or my handprint- Wha- uh, I mean, where should my head be right now? What should I be thinking about? And, uh, how do [00:08:00] I... I mean, I'm not gonna burn off my, my F- I don't, I don't know, I don't know what to do, is- Yeah I guess my question. Drex DeFord: Yeah, I, I, and I think that's the, you know, that's the real challenge with the, you know, with the whole story. And, and not just the NYC, you know, hospital story, but kind of the bigger issue of do we have this data? Are we keeping it? How long are we keeping it? Or how are we using it? Who has access to it? Uh, third, what third parties have access to it? Um, Sarah sort of mentioned the retainability issue, like how long do we keep it? How long do we need to keep it? Um, you know, you come in, uh, you know, I've, I've worked in hospitals where, uh, when, uh, visitors check in, they get a background check, a very high-level background check. But they come in, and they show their ID, and they may very well do a fingerprint scan or something like that. Once you've checked the ID, you don't need to retain that stuff anymore. Dump it. Why do you have it? Why are you keeping it? And maybe you do, and maybe somebody's thought about this, but obviously, in some cases, that's not the case. If I'm the patient, obviously I'm worried about, well, who has that data now, and what are they doing with it? How are they using it to, uh, steal my identity or do, you [00:09:00] know, other nefarious stuff? So this is where you, I think you get into things like identity monitoring and making sure that if new accounts are opened or new things are happening that involve your ID, that you're notified. The problem with things like, you know, uh, uh, situations like New York City, uh, I, I always have a problem with this name, Health and Hospitals, is that, um, this is one of the largest cost- public hospitals, health systems in the country. These are people who are, uh, you know, for a lot of them, they don't have, uh, the money for insurance. Right. They may be on, on Medicaid. They're not going to Bill Russell: NYU, and they're not going to New York-Presbyterian. Drex DeFord: They're going- They fall through the gaps, exactly. A- and so they're the people that are the most likely to be taken advantage of and not have a way to know about it, right? Uh, uh, they probably... They may not be able to afford credit monitoring, so they're the most vulnerable in the community. And, and this is, I feel like, and not, not to get into politics, but I feel like we're on a path [00:10:00] right now in the country where there are more and more people who are going to be more and more vulnerable over time, that are gonna get their care from a, the public healthcare system. I mean, if you look at most health systems in the country, 75% of their income, of their revenue comes from Medicare and Medicaid today. A lot more over time continues to come from Medicaid. And with- The big beautiful bill that probably is gonna continue to be the case. So more and more patients are gonna become vulnerable. And when we have these kind of data breaches, these are the patients who probably are the least likely to be able to do that monitoring and figure out something bad's happening to them. And they may not find out until, you know, months or years later. Bill Russell: One of the questions we throw out at the 229, or at least I do from time to time, is what is your data retention policy? Drex DeFord: Mm. Bill Russell: And it's, it's squishy. Uh, it... The, the academics are probably the most honest. They essentially look at you and go, "It's forever." Like we, we don't know what research we're gonna need to do in the future, [00:11:00] therefore- Yeah ... we keep everything. Uh, so we'll just call them the, the hoarders of, of data for research purposes. Um, everybody else is, is sort of in that ballpark of we don't really know, so I guess if we don't really know, it really is forever. Um, I remember the reason, the reason I was pushed in this direction was, uh, back in the day, you know, you were, you were storing on these, these very expensive SANs, uh, storage area networks. And invariably, you'd fill them up, and you'd have to buy another one, and you'd walk into the executives and say, "Hey, I, I need $2 million." And they'd look at you like, "Huh, what, what are you doing?" It's like, "Well, you know, we filled this one up. We're gonna get another one." Well, at that point, you have a very serious conversation about, well, how much stuff do we have? Do we need it all? Where do we put it? And, um, uh, you know, and so we did that research. It was interesting. It's just not as clear-cut as it should be. I mean, we had lawyers involved. We had- Drex DeFord: Mm-hmm ... Bill Russell: people weighing in on things. And some people, "Well, it's 27 years for this, and it's eight years for this, and it's- Mm-hmm ..., forever for this." And I'm like- Drex DeFord: And state by [00:12:00] state- Bill Russell: State by state, right regulations can change Drex DeFord: things, too. Bill Russell: So we... Yeah, so we were mult- multi-state, and we had, we had that to, uh, to consider as well. Um, I... W- is- Is it time to get se- I mean, it's time to get serious about the inventory, but it's also time to get serious about do we need this stuff? Can we get r- what can we get rid of, and should we get rid of? And why do we ke- do we keep it... I, I understand the academics for research, but do we keep it for convenience on the other side? Or fe- fear of, "Oh my gosh, we got rid of something we shouldn't have gotten rid of." Sarah Richardson: Yeah, but it's like anything. It's like with GDPR or CCPA. If you need to, if you want to be serious about your biometric information, go out and look at the BIPA or BIPA-style biometric privacy legislation, it's spreading, decide which version makes sense. Typically, going with the one that's most extreme is gonna protect you, and then build your program around that. Then you can do your audit, your third-party contracts, your data minimization. Mm-hmm. Your board can be informed. But those state laws- Yeah ... are gonna vary. But if you lean into the heaviest [00:13:00] one- Drex DeFord: Mm-hmm Bill Russell: But Sarah, Sarah's taking us in the direction that we're gonna go anyway, which is essentially, Drex, it is almost the end of May, and we are waiting for some serious- serious regulations to drop- Yeah ... on the cybersecurity team, who's fairly concerned already with their workload and stuff they have to keep up with. Sarah, by the way, just created a new reg that they have to keep up with, and then this one is, is gonna drop... Well- ... we don't know if it's gonna drop in May. We don't think it actually will drop in May, I think is the general consensus. But doesn't mean it's not gonna drop in June or early June. It's, it's, it's, uh, been talked about. Yeah. Uh, th- this is pretty serious concern. Talk a little bit about, about what's, what's coming down the pipe and what people are looking at. . Drex DeFord: Yeah. The HIPAA security rule, um, which, uh, you know, is, has been out there now for, uh, feels like forever. Um, those, the comment period- Bill Russell: Well, it Drex DeFord: has, it has, it has been forever ... it has been kind of forever, yeah. It has been forever. Um, when, uh, when the new administration came in, [00:14:00] they basically said, "No new regulation," and so that, uh, HIPAA security rule was kind of in the process at the time. There had been public comment, and the pub- the public comment period had ended, and then nothing else happened. Uh, a year later now, more maybe than a year later, uh, I know that we're, um, we're kind of anticipating that the HIPAA security rule regulations, the new HIPAA security rule regulations are gonna drop, uh, that the projection had been May. I've always been kind of skeptical, like I don't know, I don't think there's new regulations coming. I just don't think they want new regulations, and here we are May 27th, and we don't have, we don't have the drop yet. Uh, a lot of the stuff in the HIPAA security rule, uh, the new HIPAA security rule, I think if you took the date and the real- the reality that there's no resources that go with it, and you just looked at the, "You should do these things," that most people, um, would say, "Yep. I mean, it's an open book test. We totally should be doing those things." Uh, the, the [00:15:00] problem is a lot of them are hard to do, a lot of them are expensive to do, and the financial pressures that health systems are under right now, they can't afford to do them. And so if the HIPAA security rule drops and it says all these things and it has some really tight timelines, you're, there's already a lot of yelling and screaming about financially this is gonna break our back. Sarah Richardson: Where's the coordination in Washington to say if you're going to put out all of these regulations, rules, and recommendations, but you're gonna continue to cut the reimbursement modeling, like there has to be a space, and not the meaningful use chase that we did, because we all put all those things in place to get all the money, but then we had to maintain them- Mm-hmm and that became this economic burden internally. Mm-hmm. There's gotta be a coordination of space that says, "If this is how you stay as protected as possible, but here's the parameters by which your payer mix is gonna exist." Isn't there a stratification of law application based on how much you can actually afford? Bill Russell: Yeah. So just, just to be clear here, this has been a, this has been floating [00:16:00] around for almost two years. Mm-hmm. 'Cause th- this was Biden administration stuff. Drex DeFord: Mm-hmm. Bill Russell: And then Trump administration said, "No new regs," and now it's, it's starting to come up. Two years ago- Drex DeFord: Mm-hmm ... Bill Russell: people were, like, beside themselves when they, when they read... And by the way, everybody I talked to had the same response, which is like, "Yeah, we know we should be doing this. Yeah, it's, it's all really good stuff." Drex DeFord: Yeah. Bill Russell: It's like, "We just, we just can't do it that quickly." It's timing. But here's my- Yeah. So here's my poking healthcare a little bit. It's been two freaking years. It's not like you had to spin up a project and do it all in six months or three months. You had two years of knowing what was coming down the pipe. Now, there was comment and all this other stuff, but you had two years. Two years is like, hey, with a little extra time here, a little extra time there, you should be able to make progress on this. I... And, and Drex, we talked about this. It- it's not comp- it's not complex. It's likely not going to require a lot of [00:17:00] capital to do. It just takes time and resources. Well, now you're resource constrained 'cause you didn't do anything for two years, and you knew it was coming down the pipe. But you essentially said, "Well, I'm banking on the fact it's not coming down the pipe." That's what you banked on. Drex DeFord: I, I think I'm, I would make, you know, a little bit Bill Russell: of an argument- Yeah, you would 'cause you're nicer to these people. I'm not gonna be nice to these CIOs. You had two years. Drex DeFord: It, Bill Russell: I, I get it. And I, and I want, I want- And, and it's not- I want the text. I just got a text from somebody. They're not listening to this show 'cause we're recording it, but about something else I wrote. But I want the text from you, I want the text from the CIOs to say, "Bill, you're wrong. You know, this, we can't respond to everything that might become a reg." Whatever their excuse is, uh, I wanna have that conversation because too many times we're like, "Hey, we don't have the money, we don't have the time," but we knew it was happening forever. Drex DeFord: Like- Now, how many times have we sat down- Okay, but, you know- ... with the CIOs and the CISOs and the CTOs and the imaging folks, and the, uh, right on down the line, and we've talked about their inability to prioritize the governance problem [00:18:00] that e- exists in every health system? We have this much money, we have this much demand, and we have to make a decision about what we're going to do. And those things, even though we see them coming in a regulatory, from a regulatory environment, even though they reduce risk and make the health system safer, they're not often cool and sexy. In an era of AI, there are things that get prioritized and there are things that get deprioritized. And a lot of the things, even though you see them coming for two years- The resources just are not put against those, those items. I know they should be. Sarah- I'm with you. I think they, we should have... This is, here's the open book test. It's coming. Here's the questions. It's coming. And Sarah- We're gonna grade the test in two years ... Sarah, what, what, Bill Russell: what do you wanna, what do you wanna throw in here? Sarah Richardson: Yeah, I'm like, will you two stop talking for a second, please? 'Cause there is a... Go. I know. Bill Russell: I feel bad. Sarah Richardson: Um, like, we're in Edgyise here. There's a, this is what you bring to the board. These are the things that you say, prioritized or [00:19:00] otherwise. Like, what is our acceptable level of risk in this environment based on all of these different requirements, regulations, et cetera? And then when there's a problem, it's not Strex's fault, because we agreed to it. Now, every once in a while we all know that our peers get scapegoated and out, then they're out looking for a job. But when there's the awareness factor and you're agreeing to the level of risk and where you're willing to accept it, that's a very different conversation. I am hopeful that is occurring with boards and with C-suite, and the constant reminder. Because cybersecurity is not just IT's responsibility. It's a responsibility to inform and then enact upon decisions that are made, governance or otherwise, in the organization. And so a protective measure may be that we agreed to only be this compliant because this is what we could afford, as an example. Bill Russell: This is how I operate. You guys know this. I know. I mean, we're talking more about- We've been, we've been in the room with you ... 2027 than we are 2026. In our, in our business meetings internally, [00:20:00] I'm always talking about 2027. And Sarah, you've heard me ta- start talking about 2028. Yeah. "Yeah, this is what we're gonna do in 2028. This is what we need to be prepared for." Yes. 'Cause, 'cause if, if you give me a year and a half to two years, we can move mountains. But if- Mm-hmm ... I'm, like, dreaming up stuff I'm gonna do in June or July, you can barely do anything. I mean, even with a s- company our size, you can barely do it. We're, we're resource constrained 'cause we're not a healthcare system. Um, so I'm limited what I can do in two months, but I'm not limited what we can do in two years. Drex DeFord: And- Well, and th- that's it. You have to plan for it, right? And I mean, this is the kind of, you know, 101 MBA part of, you know how long a project's gonna take. This project's gonna take 18 months. Let's take the time that we know it has to be finished, and we back that up by 18 months, and that, Sarah, is what we talk to the board about. Here's our start date. If we don't start here, there's no way we're going to be compliant. And so you- I mean, may- I don't wanna have a bunch of, you know, CYA, but that's not really what it is. It's [00:21:00] just you're trying to help the organization do the things the organization should be doing in the time that it needs, you know, the, the amount of time that needs to be, uh- So Bill Russell: Let me throw out the last, last one Drex DeFord: and- Oh, no, Bill's got one more Bill Russell: Well, the, the one more is- ... my, my LinkedIn was inundated over the weekend, and maybe you guys saw this story where, uh, Microsoft, um, Microsoft essentially spent their entire AI budget for the year in the first five months of the year. And so Satya came out and said, "Enough. Enough. We're, getting rid of..." And it was all on Claude, by the way. Microsoft spending money on Claude. So- Those tokens Drex DeFord: are Bill Russell: expensive ... tokens, they become very expensive. So, and by the way, they're not the only one. Uber said the first four months, they blew through their budget. All right? So they've, they've given people full reign, and they're going to town, and hopefully they're getting stuff out of it, but that's part of the conversation, is are we, are we measuring the ROI on a token basis that we're actually getting from this? [00:22:00] But the conclusions that... You know, uh, first of all, LinkedIn is the worst source of, uh... Well, it's not the worst, but they're, it's not, it's social media, and so everyone's trying to get likes and, and thumbs up and all that stuff. And so the, the craziness that people, they said, "Well, you know, clearly people cost less than AI, therefore Microsoft's deciding to bring all their people back." I'm like, that's not what this article... What this article was about was essentially Satya looking at it going, "Look, why are we using a third-party tool when we have Copilot sitting over here?" And they're like, "Well, Copilot's not as good as Claude." It's like, well, it's not as good as Claude because we're not using it. If we used it and you guys hated it, you would create that demand, you'd create that push for us to build a better tool, and that's what we do, is we build software. Um, I, I'm curious, do you guys see this story? And, and how do you, how do you take... You know, what's, what's, what's the lesson for healthcare? is it the token economy or is it, um, is it ROI? Is it... What, what is it that we should [00:23:00] be looking at here? Drex DeFord: We al- we always talk about the, like if you're gonna have a new project that it has to do a couple of things. It either has to reduce the existing spend or it has to increase revenue. And I think we gotta start looking at all these projects like that. I mean, when you, you give this free reign, all the, you know, just go do whatever you want. People will do things because they think it's the right thing, but it's not actually the thing that the organization needs. We gotta have that kind of bar before we put these projects into place. Bill Russell: Sarah, did you, do you ever watch the Family Feud? Sarah Richardson: Oh, yeah. Richard Dawson. He was the ultimate, like, inappropriate- Bill Russell: Richard Dawson ... into- You just dated yourself. Don't say Richard Dawson. You gotta say, uh- I mean, Sarah Richardson: last time I watched it, Bill, except for Jared Washington's episode. Bill Russell: Just saying. I know, Jared Washington's episode's great. Um, uh, we're gonna c- we're gonna get buzzers for this so that you have to buzz in, and then if you buzz in quickly enough- Yeah. 'Cause we're two old guys, we'll buzz in slow and you could get, get to go first. What, you get the last word on this. What's, what, how, how would you be thinking about this [00:24:00] story? Sarah Richardson: Two ways. Number one, I know that we are generating the right type of thought leadership when people are texting us on the weekends about, "Hey, your boss just wrote this and I'm really curious about, you know, what he said and some of these thoughts." That's a win because it means we're, we're touching the right buttons. The other piece, though, is that, and, and we are demonstrating this ourselves, is that AI is not reducing anything. It is actually allowing us to produce more. And as the production of that, back to Drex's formula, I would encourage people to create the triangle that we use. You know, who's it valuable for? What are the three things that need to be hit all the time for it to make sense? And it doesn't mean that you say yes to everything that comes through the door. Um, the AI governance and really understanding what your options are inside your organization are massive. And if you run out of your budget in five years, what do you do? No other project I've ever worked on says, "Here's seven more months of funding just because we like using it." You have to get really, really dialed in. Like, the pendulum always this side to this side. It's gonna come to the middle faster with AI than maybe any other technology that we've deployed in the [00:25:00] last 25-plus years. Bill Russell: Hmm. I said you were getting it the last word, and I'm gonna take the last word, which is essentially this is why AI has to be focused on access. It is your revenue stream. You have to increase your revenue. And I, I think it's the, it's, it's what we heard from Pete McKenna from, uh, uh, Baylor Scott & White, the CEO of Baylor Scott & White. He focused it on access, and their numbers would show that you ha- that's where you're gonna get your biggest return. So, you know, reduce those, uh, the time it takes to get to see a primary care doc. Uh, reduce your no-shows. Uh, increase... You know, it, it's all those things- Mm-hmm ... that we, we know. And if AI can be focused on those things and all of a sudden you tick up your revenue, then we're having a different conversation than just, uh, hey, my team's taking better notes in meetings. Drex DeFord: We talk about creating capacity all the time. That's how you create... That more resources and seeing more patients, that's more money. Um- That's more capacity to do more stuff. Bill Russell: You know what I wanted to talk about? I wanted to talk about, uh, SpaceX. Drex, you and [00:26:00] I back in the day, like, the episode whatever, they would send a rocket up and we would talk about it 'cause- Yeah we're, we're both space nerds. And, uh, I mean, they shot up a, what? 16-story building into... It didn't quite make it to orbit, but, uh, but man, I, I just, I can't imagine, uh, what the future holds. We'll talk about it on another episode. Drex DeFord: Yeah, yeah. Bill Russell: Um- It's Drex DeFord: so crazy. Bill Russell: It is crazy. The, the Sarah Richardson: caption on that picture of that burning rocket in the Indian Ocean said, "That part was unintended." Like, no kidding. Bill Russell: Well, yeah, it... Yeah, it's because one- Yeah, it, it was unintended. They did not burn off all the fuel because the, uh, not all the engines lit on, on either ship. So they had, uh... They still have some things to work through for sure. And, um, yeah. So we'll see, uh, we'll see what happens. I think that's the reason they're landing them in the Indian Ocean right now, and not trying to bring them back to land, 'cause they're- Thanks Sarah Richardson: for the double environmental hazard, the takeoff and the landing in that case. Bill Russell: Mm. Well, we will, we will see. When they, uh, when they start doing the, uh, data centers in [00:27:00] space, then you're gonna have a, uh, interesting conversation of should we ever build another data center on this planet? Um, I know, it, it... We will need data centers on this planet. There's, there's bandwidth and latency issues. But we're talking about things I never thought we would talk about. And that's, uh, that's what's available to us once we leave this atmosphere, is all sorts of stuff that, uh, um, that just boggles the mind. But it's fun to think about. Hey, guys, thanks again. Uh, everybody who's listening, thanks for listening. That's all for now. Speaker: That's Newsday. Stay informed between episodes with our Daily Insights email. And remember, every healthcare leader needs a community they can lean on and learn from. Subscribe at this week, health.com/subscribe. Thanks for listening. That's all for now.