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The Interoperability rule has come down, now how do we build it. Matt Michela CEO of Life Image and Kim Chaundy of Geisinger talk about how they partnered to make images interoperable across PA KeyHIE partners. Hope you enjoy. 


This transcription is provided by artificial intelligence. We believe in technology but understand that even the smartest robots can sometimes get speech recognition wrong.

 Welcome to this week, health events where we amplify great thinking with interviews from the floor. And, uh, the floor just happens to be our home offices, but we're gonna keep doing the shows. Special thanks to our channel sponsors, Starbridge Advisors Health, Eric Galen, healthcare, VMware, and Protel Advisors.

For choosing to invest in our show. My name is Bill Russell Healthcare, CIO, coach and creator of this Week in Health, IT set of podcast videos and collaboration events dedicated to developing the next generation of health leaders. You know, one of the things I really miss about the show, as I've said before, is doing that booth walk where I come across solutions that I.

I was not familiar with, or I just wasn't introduced to before. And I'm always looking for ones that are backstopped by respectable health systems that are using the solution. And, uh, you know, as, as I said before, these, these. These booth walk interviews that I'm doing are really off the cuff, so I'm just exploring solutions, just like I'm walking the floor.

And so today I'm excited to be joined by, uh, Matthew. Matthew, how do you say your last name? Mickel. Yeah, Mickel. Perfect. Thanks Bill. Perfect life Image, CEO. And uh, Geisinger Senior Director Kim Chandry. Uh, from Danville, Pennsylvania. Kim, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. So we're gonna, just so you know how this works, when you're talking, this is a Zoom video conference.

When you're talking, you'll be the one on the screen when you're not talking. It'll be whoever is talking is gonna be on the screen, so you can do whatever you want When you're not talking, no one's gonna be able to see you . It's just a little housekeeping we probably should have done before we got on the show.

So here's how we're gonna do this. This is literally a booth visit. I'm gonna give you open-ended question to really start, and then we'll go from there. This is, I'm a, you know, recovering CIO as I say, you know, 16 hospital system. I'm coming up to your booth. Matthew, I'm gonna start with you. Give us an idea of, of what I would've seen if I had come to your booth at the show.

So, uh, if you had shown up at, uh, HIMSS with our booth, you would've seen an absolutely fabulous little two story booth for our first ever second story. Uh, and, uh, a whole series of things around interoperability, about data access and the breadth of our network and the partnerships, uh, that we have in place.

And then a showcase, right, of a, uh, specific solution that we're very excited about, that we've put together in conjunction with Geisinger. Uh, and with, uh, Orion and THIE in, uh, Pennsylvania, um, for life image itself. Uh, bill, I think, uh, what, uh, you would, uh, I would've explained to you and you would've seen is that, uh, you know, we're a mature healthcare, uh, IT company that's focused on, uh, interoperability.

And the way that we would discuss it, right, with the technical jargon, jargon, is we're an enterprise. Uh, wide evidence-based network that connects thousands of hospitals and facilities, about 10,000 in the us, another 60,000 internationally that then accesses medical information of a wide variety of types.

Imaging is our core kind of default use case because accessing medical imaging is incredibly complicated and hard and has, because it's so hard, has predominantly been left out of. Most of the large scale standardization initiatives or initiatives in order to kind of make access to data. And that's really been our core expertise in data.

But we actually move, uh, access, move, govern, uh, medical information of any categories and probably about 30% of the data that flows across our broad network, which touches about. 12 to 15 million patients a month of medical information. And that's between facilities, not inside the facility, uh, itself. Uh, although we do help support and manage that, uh, for thousands of use cases, right?

Whether it's a patient who needs information sent to a trauma one or a level one trauma center for stroke, or whether it's a cancer patient going to a specialist that wants five years of medical history, you know, et cetera, et cetera. We have the plumbing right that connects. Hundreds and hundreds of different healthcare IT companies together so that that medical information can move so that doctors can treat patients and make diagnosis and do treatment plans.

Companies can develop drugs, you know, medical device companies can get approval from the FDI and devices companies that are from involved in. Payment or policies and need medical information, determine medical necessity, do that. So we sit as this network, very large network in place. That's kind of who we are Before we talk a little bit about kind of our, uh, you know, our, our new innovations with Geisinger.

Wow. Um, so yeah, so I end up with a lot of questions as a result of that. So. I hear re, you know, repository for, uh, research. I hear, uh, almost an HIE of sorts. I hear a, uh, uh, a network for evidence sharing. Um, I hear, I, I almost heard, uh. You know, the ability to move records from one health system to another in the case of, you know, care management and continuum of care, am I hearing all those things in this solution or am I overreaching with what I've heard you're hearing, hearing all of those things.

Right. So, you know, we were originally born as a company to solve the problem of moving a medical image. 150 feet across Tremont Street in Boston, Massachusetts, between two departments at Mass General, where their standard workflow was six days to get the image across. Literally across the street. Uh, so a patient couldn't have a follow-up appointment for cancer treatment, um, for a week because the image wasn't there.

So we solved that problem and because of that, um, we started in imaging and then created solutions to all of these non interoperable environments and systems. In imaging and then grew to this really broad network of, uh, you know, today we sit in 19 of the top 20 institutions in the country and we've got about 90% market presence in all academic medical centers and tertiary care facilities, and we expanded beyond the imaging.

Use cases into other data types because we invest in interoperability and public standards. No proprietary anything in our platform. We don't do proprietary codes, we don't do proprietary standards. We want everything to be accessible, and that's our value and has been for a decade or more. And so as a corporate value.

And so once you think about right. Um, the plumbing, right, the network being agnostic to data type, then there's no reason not to provision it to all these other non interoperable entities. So in Pennsylvania with Geisinger and KHIE and Orion, right, we have a solution which we'll talk about that, um, helps image enable that HIE, that regional HIE, that then provisions for roughly 6 million patients in that geography and 350 institutions, the ability to

Access imaging in conjunction to the other information in the HIE, um, using really new smart and fire technology. Uh, whereas in other cases, uh, we're enabling two of the three of the largest telehealth companies in the country to access medical information on a patient. So when they get on the phone with you, they have access to information so they can treat you now, probably not for a sore throat.

Right, but for patients that need lots of imaging, you know, or, so yes, we play in all those kind of areas because. I guess the, the non-technical corollary, if we weren't in healthcare, if we were a telecom company, as an example, our competitors would be Verizon, right? Where they're gonna connect into any device you have, whether it's, uh, an iPad or it's an Android, or it's a television, or it's a router.

They don't care what the device is. Their job is just to get data in and out of it. I'm connecting into healthcare data silos. I don't care. What that device is, whether it's a monitor or it's a database, or it's a cloud, or it's a device or it's a camera in dermatology. And then get that wherever it needs to be without screwing it up, without screwing up the diagnostic quality.

And once you do that, then you can solve lots of other. Kind of use cases for folks and uh, yeah, and we grew up in the world of actual care delivery. So most of our activity is directly affecting patients immediately. But we support a lot of research. You know, all these AI companies and imaging that are building algorithms need data, right?

To test their models. And we can help them do that, you know, insecure and, you know. Confidential ways. And uh, so those are the kinds of things that we do. And I'm sorry. Thanks Bill for letting me go on so long. Oh, no, no, absolutely. So, uh, so that's where we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna go to that solution because this is what I generally would do is, you know, go to something that I can really get my arms around that and go from there.

It sounds like yes, you are the, the network behind it. You are the Verizon of connecting up all these different things. But let's talk about imaging. I think, you know, people don't recognize. That, you know, generally speaking in the HIE you don't have the imaging data necessarily there. They think it's in the EHR, but, uh, a lot of the imaging data resides outside the EHR and it's just referenced from the EHR and the same thing's true within the HIE.

So you guys really fill that gap as, uh, again, am I hearing this right? You're filling that gap of, within Pennsylvania, within that region that Geiser is, is playing in. You, um, not only you will come alongside that HIE and provide access to the images that are available across that network. Uh, that, that's right.

So, um, EHRs generally can't handle imaging. They never have. I'm not being negative. It's just hard. And so if you are. Working in an epic EHR, um, or you're working in a Cerner EHR and you have imaging that's available and you can click through and see it, um, other than one or two hospitals in the country, that's us.

So we're the intel behind, so to speak, and we're facilitating that connectivity to access that imaging out of pax and then sharing that between institutions, providers, individuals, patients, et cetera, uh, in that regard. Right. And so four HIEs, and this one in particular for KHE, was one of the largest. In the country, um, they've already established right, this network of 350 roughly hospitals in Pennsylvania and Geyser has led that effort, um, for a long time to get them connected.

But since imaging so hard, it's not a part of it. So if you want to receive and you're hospital one, and you wanna get your medical information on a patient that's showing up in your emergency room from hospital two, you can go to the HIE and you can collect some information, but it's gonna be fairly rudimentary information that you can extract from the ehr.

And then you're gonna come to somebody like Life Image and say, now I have a whole different technology platform. Please go get that for me. From the other institution, it might not be in the same time. There might be a delay. Maybe it's an institution that's not on our network and that requires an extra consent.

There's all these logistical things. So what we've done here in Pennsylvania is we've said, no, let's unify all this. Let's make it simpler, right? For the providers and then this whole community to have the integrate, the data integrated, not just, Hey, a CT exam existed. , but here's the actual exam and here's the radiology report associated with it so you know what the diagnosis and the treatment was, or at least should be, so you can actually have true history.

And so it's very unique. This doesn't exist. It's never been done anywhere in America before. Anyone in the world before. We used Smart On Fire to do it so that it's completely standard based and really fast and can. Be used in other, um, kind of settings and infrastructures. Uh, but it really was quite honestly started from the place of Geisinger really saying, we have to solve this problem.

And not just for us. 'cause Geisinger's been a longstanding customer of life image and we helped them with that. Uh, but how do we solve it for this really broad network on a big community population basis to effectively, you know, drive cost and quality and care, right? And so it needed somebody with the market presence and leadership.

The true commitment to, frankly, technology innovation, like somebody like Geisinger to say, how do we make these parties work together to make this work? Yeah. So, so Kim talk to, talk to us about, uh, the key HIE and the work that, uh, Geisinger did to really put that in place and the value that brings to the community.

And then we'll go into the imaging a little bit. Sure. So, um, Geisinger had taken a stance all the way back in 2005, um, that they really wanted to make sure wherever our patients were going in the community, that they would have an opportunity to, um, get access to their data or know where they are in the, in the community.

Um. We live in a rural area, so, um, hospitals are probably every other, um, town or maybe five other towns over. So we really wanted to make sure we had an opportunity to take care of our customers or our patients in our communities and in our surrounding communities. Um, like Matt had mentioned, uh, we've grown.

Um, very large. Um, we're servicing about 6.8 million patients, um, in 56 counties in Pennsylvania, and we're also now in New Jersey, um, servicing about seven counties in New Jersey. Um, we found. Pretty quickly that as we grew, um, expectations grew, um, we needed to get quicker, faster, um, more information, um, you know, to automate the processes to be more reactive instead of, I'm sorry, to be proactive instead of reactive.

So we're pushing a lot of clinical data directly to the providers so that they don't even have to go looking for it. Our opportunity here with life image in Orion was, it's a game changer. Um, just think about it. You, you know, you as a patient, um, are seen at a, a local facility and you have a CAT scan done and it's a trauma, and now you've gotta be sent to a, a, you know, a tertiary care center, a.

Um, now you're going there and your images are there before you even get there. Um, you don't have to radiate the patient again. Um, the patient experience is a lot smoother, um, smoother transitions of care and, you know, it's a savings. Um, we're, we're all trying very hard to reduce costs in, in healthcare and this is definitely a game changer for us and it's a great opportunity and the physicians love it.

We made sure when we were working with Live Image and Orion that we kept it easy for them. Um, so we really worked a lot on, um, the use and the, uh, usability of the system. So are you talking about with THIE, are you talking about, um, all Geisinger locations or are you talking about them actually going from maybe a, a Inger location to, uh, somebody that's in your clinically integrated network, but not necessarily in your EHR platform?

That's correct. Wow. That's correct. Because, you know, I, I mean for those who are sitting there going, oh, this is easy. It's not that easy. Uh, you know, we had, you know, radiology and, and, uh, cardiology imaging across our 16 hospitals where I was, we had, I think, uh, when we started, we had six, uh, radiology imaging systems with their different repositories.

And we literally had doctors going from one hospital to another and not able to get their images, which was problematic. But my most recent story is my father-in-Law, uh, 80, 87 year old father-in-law goes to one hospital with, with flu and pneumonia. And essentially he gets, he gets a chest X-ray, and they do all that.

He goes to the next hospital and they, they're like, you know, it'll be too long for us to wait till we get that image, so we're just gonna do the imaging again. And that's the, that's the kind of stuff we, that this solution really, uh, takes care of or addresses, not, not from a customer experience standpoint, from a cost standpoint, but also from a, a speed of care standpoint.

Um, from where you sit and, and that's how you guys designed it, I assume. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's, you know, we, we hear a lot of success stories. Um, we had a patient that had to be sent down to chop. Um, you know, so knowing that, you know, it was a, um, a kid, you know, probably worried, parents really worried.

Um, we actually sent all of their images over to them before the, the patient. Arrived from the helicopter. Um, and it, it, it just allowed the, uh, physician receiving the patient to get a better understanding. It allowed the parents to relax and know that the transitions of care are, are happening and that they're going to be informed and know exactly what transpired at this hospital.

So I just, I, you know, indulge me here. So Geisinger is on, uh, you guys are on Epic or Cerner? We're on Epic. You're on Epic and but CHOP is on. What is CHOP on? They're on Epic as well. So, um, so the Care Everywhere, care elsewhere in Epic can read the radiology report but not really access to the image itself.

So, um, through Life Image, we were able to make sure that the providers, um, from CHOP was actually looking at quality images, um, DICOM viewers, um, to be able to actually interpret, um, from reading the report as well as seeing the image themselves. And that, that's a huge gap. And that's, that's fantastic. So Care everywhere, they're going to get the medical record from one location to the other, although I just did a whole show on where that does and does not work.

Right. Um, and, but, but still they're gonna be missing the images and so you're sending across those high res images to chop before the patient actually gets there. Yep. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's, that, that's a fantastic solution. So, and, and, and again, bill, it doesn't matter whether they're on Epic or they're on Cerner or they're on Meditech, I mean, it doesn't matter, right?

And it doesn't matter whether the image was taken using a GE scanner or a Siemens scanner, none of that matters, right? We've gotta figure out how that works. Um, irrespective of version software, version modeling workflow, right? So you're, you're an agnostic repository. Are you a repository? Are you actually pulling the images in to then host them?

We're, we're pulling the images in, I mean, a, as a part of our, you know, business practice, right? You think about it this way, right? If we're mo, if we're helping hospitals exchange medical information on, we'll say roughly 12 million patients every single month, and sometimes that might be. You know, a single ct or it might be a, a, uh, you know, drug list, but it also could be five years of patient history with 27 exams and all their associated data.

Um, we're not gonna store that. Right. The cost of that is crazy to redundantly store it when it already exists inside the institution. So we just need to know where it is. We'd be able to federate it, understand it, index it, reconcile patients so we know who they are, um, as best as they can. And then, um, either depending on your use case, provide visualization into it without moving it or actually move it.

And then institutions have their own. Internal policies on, well, do I wanna ingest it? Do I only wanna ingest three slices of a 1200 slice exam? You know, what do I wanna do with my own internal, you know, practices which are different from institution to institutions? So we have to make sure they can do all of those, you know, gyrations with the data.

Wow. So does the new ONC proposed rule change how you're going to approach this or think about this? So, um, I mean from life images perspective, right? Um, we've been working with, uh, ONC for the better part of a year and a half, and we've provided a lot of guidance. I work with Sequoia, I work with, you know, the Commonwealth, um, you know, group.

Um, we're obviously try to be standards, you know, in, in space, in everything we can. And interoperability is. What we dry that. So, um, there are very little in the report and the standards that we didn't know was coming. 'cause we've been pretty actively involved and they included imaging, which was a big, big step for them, right.

To do that. Um, you know, and in the first generation it'll be the imaging narrative in the report. Right. Which is technically easier. From our point of view, we've already built all of this technology. There's literally nothing that life image needs to do to help our customers be completely compliant with, um, all of these standards.

Now, again, every customer is different, right? So in some customers they'll say, yep, you're digitally connected into our pathology archives, and then we can include dataset. Others say, no, no, no. I have an entirely different vendor that I work with for that data slice. So every institution's gonna be different.

But for life image, we've already built all of this, and today we're already provisioning data of every dimension that's included in the standards to consumers, um, in some of our patient portals and the information that, um, they're requesting. So we don't have a technology build. We do have an implementation build with our customers and with providers who may have 17 different vendors they have to rationalize now or may not have the internal ability to do an HL seven connection 'cause they never built the staff.

So there's a lot of work on the provider side that has to be done depending on their site. Um, but on our side it's literally just integration and connectivity. Um, and we're very thrilled, right, that the rules are in place because. We think ultimately that's the only way we're gonna really improve cost and quality in a dramatic way, is to make data more accessible to everybody, including patients.

That's our So, so give me an idea the. I, you know, so as this week in health, it, I, I would naturally ask, you know, from the, the point of contracting to the point I get something, uh, implemented. Let's assume we, we want to start in Southern California. We wanna start sharing images across, uh, the, the clinically integrated network, which represents a lot of different EHRs.

What, what does an implementation look like? Um, so. The way I think, uh, bill, I'd answer that right, is if you think about the ONC rules, right? They're patient centric or somebody representing the patient. So you've gotta have the technical ability to find and acquire this, you know, a minimum required data set, uh, within institution.

Uh. Kind of as a one transaction, right? It's not necessarily population based, although if you solve it technically, you can solve it on a population base. So in that regard, we're assuming that a request comes through just as it does in our existing infrastructure. It just happens to come from a patient or somebody representing them.

That workflow already exists. That comes through as a digital request into a medical record office that's using . Integration we've already built with them. That's either inside their UI or inside our UI that says, here's what, who the patient is. These are demographics, this is how it works. Push these buttons, query retrieve out of your archives, combine it all together and send it off to the patients.

And that can be highly automated or you can put manual checks along the way. Um, in most of our customers, right, our use case is basic. It starts with imaging. So it's all kinds of imaging. With others, right? It's a much more comprehensive approach where they say, okay, go into our, uh, connect it to our EHR so that you can extract it out of, and the records and the paper records, or go into our, into quest and pull, you know, our lab data, et cetera.

So every customer has their own set of vendors. Some we do all of it, some we only do the imaging part. Uh, but to your question of integration, if it's an existing customer setup, then it works today. The new rules don't put any . Nothing new on it. Right? That request can be fulfilled. It's more training the folks inside the hospital to respond to the request when it comes than it is a technical integration.

If it's a customer that would like to use us as a life image, right, to collect the rest of that information, then depending upon how many data stores they have, we may have additional integration that occurs. Sometimes that integration can take us. You know, frankly, three hours. Sometimes that integration can take us eight weeks because it's never our work cycle time is always.

What a provider has available. Right. If they can't get to you, 'cause they're really busy and talk to you for five weeks or schedule a meeting for six weeks, you can't do much. Right. So, yep. The busy nature of the hospital setting creates cycle time. But the actual technical work, this is all mature PO technology on our part.

Yep. And. And I, I mean, yeah. The, the listeners of this are gonna understand, I mean, in some health systems, a contract takes four weeks and some health systems, it takes three months. Right? Right. Yeah. But we're, we're setting up hospitals as simple connection points with simple workflow. Um, you know, we're, we're literally able to do that in an hour and we're, you know, just last year we brought 400 hospitals internationally onto our network, and that average implementation time was less than a day for each one.

Now that's once we get started. Right. Um, it took a little while sometimes to figure out which port to connect to because the people doing the contracting was different from their technical people or their small outside facilities who have outsourced it. But once you get the right seven questions answered, I.

It happens right away. Yep. Absolutely. La la last question, 'cause I, I appreciate you guys sticking around for a little extra time, but the real, real world evidence, um, is that, are, is that playing a role right now in, in the virus that's, that's going around the world? Are you, uh, a conduit for, uh, sharing of, of evidence or am I reading too much into that?

Um, so on, on our part, um, the answer is. Know today. Having said that, we've just been, frankly, pretty overwhelmed in the last month or so with existing customers or with folks that haven't managed to get their arms around digital image transfer yet, of folks that are saying, Hey, we recognize this is coming and we know we're gonna have to transfer chest cts.

How do we do it? So, um, we've got a lot of new inquiries really from folks that aren't quite as, um, experienced in the field. 'cause they just haven't done it. They, they've been very comfortable producing CDs and shipping them around and now they're starting to recognize, uh, oh, that's not gonna work. This could really be much more serious.

So, um, we're getting a lot of that kind of demand and market education, uh, here. But, um, you know, in the international locations where we're sending and receiving from our model, principally, historically, has been designed for care that works between the US and not internationally. So while we've got hundreds of hospitals in Italy, as an example.

Those are hospitals that send patients to the US or transfer care or get a radiology over read from here. Um, but the patients are being treated there, so that doesn't require us to be actively involved in that. Um, I think unfortunately, as the next few months progress and it moves here, um, we really have to help solve these problems.

Yeah. Uh, well, hey, I, I appreciate you going through this booth visit with me. This is, but this is what it feels like. You know, you sort of walk up and. You're like, okay, these are the key talking points. Uh, and uh, so now I understand where you guys fit. I mean, there's a, there's a, I mean, first of all, you're the plumbing around a lot of different things.

So if I had some creative, uh, ideas, uh, you're probably one of the companies I could sit down with, but just generally talking about the Geisinger solution, uh, there is an opportunity to transfer those images as a part of the entire medical record. So as we look at building out the longitudinal patient record.

For our community in order to improve care. This is one of the solutions that we should be looking at. So that's, that's, that's what I'm hearing. Well bill one more thing, if you don't mind, if you've got an extra three minutes, right? 'cause one of the other things we're doing with Geisinger that's really innovative, right, is we've launched, um, in the fourth quarter last year, you know, a life image application, which we call our sphe, right?

And think of Sphe, right? It's, uh, as patient, as a patient portal. I hate to use that word. It's got a ui. It's very friendly for a patient point of view. It sits plugged into life image on our enterprise network and allows a patient individually to make requests for their data anywhere in the network where it exists so that they get to control and they get to own it, right?

So what the ONC is eventually trying to build to, we've been building that on our kind of platform here and is focused on . Women who are concerned about their breast health and the use case is getting mammographies and making sure your priors are available, even if you might be getting them at Geisinger, but you just moved from San Francisco, right?

How do I make sure they're there? 'cause without priors available for mammograms, and we know across our data, millions of data points every month, about 25% of all patients that go for mammograms, their annual screening don't have priors. . Right. Even though really good academic centers will argue with you that they were way better than a 25% average, but it's about 20 to 25% wherever you go.

Uh, and, and, and again, that's 'cause we got a mobile population and imaging centers move and people go different places for cost. But if you don't have a prior mammogram, what we know from the clinical studies we've done is that. You're coming back for further diagnostic testing, and maybe that's a mammogram, but it certainly could be an MRI.

And there's actually a significant amount of population, uh, with dense breasts that work their way, all the way through a process to surgical biopsy. And what we know is that all of that additional diagnostic testing all the way up through biopsy, about two thirds of that is a false positive. Completely wasted patient experience, completely wasted cost, increased risk, increased radiation for a really vulnerable population that we don't want to have more radiation.

But it's because when that initial read is done, which, and sometimes is done in six hours. Now, if they don't have that prior, then very few radiologists are gonna make an unam, you know, a non ambiguous call on this, unless it's . Super really clear or super really bad. It's, I don't know, come back. And so in order to try to close that 25% missing prior manosphere or or mammography gap.

And get it to zero, right? It's putting the ability into the patient's hands to collect their records prior and over the course of their life, wherever they go. So with a push of a button, they can digitally collect it with a push of a button. They could send it to the to Geisinger. Uh, here so that by the time they show up for treatment, all that data's available.

And so it's really, alright. So, so let's drill into that real quick. So, uh, the push of the button, is that happening within MyChart? So I'm logged into ER's, MyChart, I'm hitting request. It's pulling that information into moving it over, or is that happening in its own app and its own interface? It's happening in its own app and its own interface.

Now it ties into MyChart and can extract data. Out of my chart, right, depending on the institution, but the idea here is. To make sure that the patient has an agnostic account. So whether they move from Epic to Cerner, they move from geography, they move from system to system. They're not tied into one specific, you know, infrastructure account, it's theirs, and they get an add to it, right?

As much as they want. Right. They can upload their own pictures, their own files, right? Their own are, are you trying to be a health vault with this kind of solution? Well, in essence, right? Conceptually that's what it is, but it's . Focus particularly on specific clinical conditions and use cases, right, that have a high need for engagement and a high need to make sure that they've got their data digitized to move in lots of different places.

And so Geisinger has gone live with that in the fourth quarter. We have, um, several other academic medical centers that have also been innovative to pilot this. Uh, and it's really a, think of it as a . From a point of view of a provider, right? It solves all my workflow or a lot of my workflow problems by making sure patients are here, but it's also something I can give to my patients and show them that I actually care about them.

Yep. No, I absolutely get that. Do you white box it or do you allow the health system to brand on top of it? Yep. Health system can brand on top of it. Exactly. Right. And so we're running a large scale clinical trial on this, a nationwide trial. That's been gearing up in the course of the year in the provider setting, right?

Geisinger really stepped forward, again, under this same umbrella of innovation with the KHIE to say, how are we gonna make sure that medical information is accessible in all of these different use cases? This was one that said, all right, let's focus on women's breast health with this, you know, brand new, innovative kind of application and lets.

See what kind of engagement we get from patients out of it and what kind of use, um, for it. Yeah. Makes sense. Uh, Matt, Kim, thank you very much for, uh, taking the time to come on the show. I really appreciate it. And, uh, you know, this, this really is the part I miss. I was not familiar with this solution and I, I, I think there's a lot of value for health systems that are, uh, poking around in this space to try to figure out.

How to do things. This is, uh, definitely one of those booths that, and gosh, now you have a two story booth that you're gonna be taking . Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully you'll get to use that at some point. That'll be, uh, pretty exciting. Uh, exactly. I say we can. O overlook, right? All the folks on the floor that we want to be more interoperable and chastise them when they're not

Yeah, I, I, I understand that. Alright, let me, let, let me close out the show then, uh, come back to the two of you. So, uh, you know, don't forget to check back multiple times this week we're gonna be dropping more shows from the, uh. From the virtual hims show, I guess you'll call it. Uh, we have a couple more interviews too.

This show is a production of this week in Health It. For more great content, check out the website this week, or the YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. That's all.

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