CHIME Fall Forum 21 – Dr. Zafar Chaudry with Seattle Childrens

Bill Russell 00:00:03 Today in health, it interviews from the chime Bill Russell 00:00:05 conference in San Diego. Bill Russell 00:00:07 My name is bill Russell. Bill Russell 00:00:08 I'm a former CIO for a 16 hospital system and creator of this week in health. Bill Russell 00:00:11 It a channel dedicated to keeping health it staff current and engaged. Bill Russell 00:00:16 Just a quick reminder. Bill Russell 00:00:17 I wouldn't be dropping interviews over the next couple of days and into Bill Russell 00:00:20 next week from the chime conference. Bill Russell 00:00:23 And then I'm going to have some more interviews from the next conference I Bill Russell 00:00:27 want to be going to, and then eventually I'll get back to Florida and to the studio Bill Russell 00:00:32 where we'll start looking at the news. Bill Russell 00:00:33 Once again. Bill Russell 00:00:34 Hope you enjoy this interview. Bill Russell 00:00:36 All right. Bill Russell 00:00:36 Another interview from the chime floor. Bill Russell 00:00:38 We're with Zephyr Chaudry from Seattle children's CIO. Bill Russell 00:00:42 Uh, welcome back to the show. Bill Russell 00:00:43 We hear you. Bill Russell 00:00:44 And I had a great conversation a little while ago. Bill Russell 00:00:47 Um, but it's been a little while. Bill Russell 00:00:49 I mean, the, uh, pandemics hit we're now back together at chime. Bill Russell 00:00:54 So a lot of transport. Bill Russell 00:00:56 What is top of mind for you right now as Zafar Chaudry 00:00:57 a CIO? Zafar Chaudry 00:00:58 Oh, I'm just trying to talk to people. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:00 Well, first of all, talking to people in 3d is amazing. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:03 It is. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:03 And also just talk to people about what's keeping them up at night. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:07 And, uh, I think the trends are similar. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:10 I was at the boot camp earlier this week and a lot of trends around Zafar Chaudry 00:01:16 teams, high-performing teams, uh, some mental health, psychological Zafar Chaudry 00:01:22 safety, you know, people are stressed. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:24 People have. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:25 They've been going after it for 18 months straight. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:28 Uh, but technologically speaking, you know, similar trends, some Zafar Chaudry 00:01:31 people are wrapping up their EMR. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:33 Some people optimizing their EMR, lots of discussion on analytics as Bill Russell 00:01:37 well. Bill Russell 00:01:37 So are we going to go back to the stress? Bill Russell 00:01:41 Are we seeing that in the health it portion of the organization, has it been a Bill Russell 00:01:45 significant sprint for the last 18 months? Bill Russell 00:01:48 And we have to start looking at that pretty closely. Bill Russell 00:01:51 What are some things we, you hear that people are. Bill Russell 00:01:55 That you think are good practices to, Zafar Chaudry 00:01:57 well, I think that's the debate. Zafar Chaudry 00:01:58 What do we do to keep people safe? Zafar Chaudry 00:02:01 So technologists working in the background and support services are still facing Zafar Chaudry 00:02:06 the same mental pressures that everybody else is many have lost family to COVID. Zafar Chaudry 00:02:11 Then you have sick family members, but working 12 hours a day from home, Zafar Chaudry 00:02:16 not having that social interaction. Zafar Chaudry 00:02:18 Some of those conversations when people have tried virtual events, happy hours, Zafar Chaudry 00:02:24 Uh, all sorts of different things. Zafar Chaudry 00:02:26 We've, we've got our own employee welfare group in it. Zafar Chaudry 00:02:30 They call themselves your voice and they they've had some fun events, some Zafar Chaudry 00:02:36 virtual events, you get mixed feedback from those people still actually just Zafar Chaudry 00:02:42 want to sit down and share a sandwich. Bill Russell 00:02:45 Okay. Bill Russell 00:02:45 Yeah. Bill Russell 00:02:46 You know, it's, it's interesting. Bill Russell 00:02:47 Cause when, when people were coming to the office, you could identify the Bill Russell 00:02:51 people that were working 12 hours. Bill Russell 00:02:53 And you can just walk into their office and say, Hey, go home. Bill Russell 00:02:56 It'll be here tomorrow. Bill Russell 00:02:57 And you know, you could, you could sort of coach them, but you don't see it. Bill Russell 00:03:01 Now they're working, you know, they're getting up early in the Bill Russell 00:03:04 morning, they're doing meetings. Bill Russell 00:03:06 They're whatever they're doing aspects of their job and they're, Bill Russell 00:03:09 they're not getting it all done. Bill Russell 00:03:10 And they never did before either. Bill Russell 00:03:12 And now they're, they're working an extra four hours from the home. Bill Russell 00:03:16 And so even though they're home, they're not seeing their family, Bill Russell 00:03:18 they're not, uh, uh, How, how much of that is, is on leadership to sort of Bill Russell 00:03:25 step back and say, all right, we're going to put these things in place. Bill Russell 00:03:29 We're going to shut off email at five o'clock that's an Bill Russell 00:03:31 extreme case, but maybe, but Zafar Chaudry 00:03:33 absolutely. Zafar Chaudry 00:03:34 I mean, for example, I could tell you the Germany, that's exactly what they do. Zafar Chaudry 00:03:39 They shut off email after a certain time and don't let people, they Zafar Chaudry 00:03:42 can accrue their email, but it won't go out over the weekend. Zafar Chaudry 00:03:46 For example, Bill Russell 00:03:47 you know, I, I coached the IoT. Bill Russell 00:03:50 Uh, invariably I'll I'll I do this kickoff process. Bill Russell 00:03:53 I interviewed their staff typically when they're coming into the organization. Bill Russell 00:03:56 And, uh, they'll say, I hope the CIO doesn't send me emails on Bill Russell 00:04:00 the weekend and it's amazing. Bill Russell 00:04:02 We don't think anything of it. Bill Russell 00:04:03 Cause as a CIO you're like, Hey, Saturday's a good day. Bill Russell 00:04:06 I can get up and get through some emails and a couple of hours and Bill Russell 00:04:08 then I'll go have my weekend. Bill Russell 00:04:11 But when they received that email from the CIO, that's a big deal. Bill Russell 00:04:14 That's like a trigger for action for them. Bill Russell 00:04:17 And. Bill Russell 00:04:18 Potentially ruin their Saturday. Bill Russell 00:04:20 Yeah. Bill Russell 00:04:20 Because they Zafar Chaudry 00:04:20 feel like they have to respond if the CIO sends an email. Zafar Chaudry 00:04:25 So yeah, we could, we could adjust our patterns as well. Zafar Chaudry 00:04:28 I mean, personally, I like to send emails usually Sunday evening. Zafar Chaudry 00:04:33 I don't do anything on Saturdays or Friday evenings, uh, hoping that they Zafar Chaudry 00:04:37 won't pick that up till Monday morning. Zafar Chaudry 00:04:39 But I think your idea of shutting off an email system at a particular Zafar Chaudry 00:04:43 time could be a possibility we have. Zafar Chaudry 00:04:47 Email free hours that would send an email between, you Zafar Chaudry 00:04:52 know, 12 and one on a Wednesday. Bill Russell 00:04:55 Our, our, our CEO did come to me and say, Hey, can we Bill Russell 00:04:57 shut off the email over the weekend? Bill Russell 00:05:00 She said, I just want you to explore the ideas of possible. Bill Russell 00:05:02 Technically they came back to us, technically, it's possible. Bill Russell 00:05:05 We could do this. Bill Russell 00:05:06 And after some conversation we realized, Hey, we're a hospital. Bill Russell 00:05:10 We do a lot of stuff. Bill Russell 00:05:11 And there's a lot of automated procedures that happen via email in the. Bill Russell 00:05:16 That's the, that's the, that's the kind of complexity we have to deal with though. Bill Russell 00:05:19 I mean, it's yeah. Bill Russell 00:05:20 We're we're uh, it's. Bill Russell 00:05:22 I don't know. Bill Russell 00:05:22 It's fascinating. Bill Russell 00:05:23 What about labor shortages? Bill Russell 00:05:24 I mean, there's there, there's a nursing shortage. Bill Russell 00:05:27 There's a battle right now for health it talent people are, uh, I I've Bill Russell 00:05:31 talked to two CIO since I've been here who are hiring people in 48 states. Bill Russell 00:05:36 It's like, we've now opened it up to if you want to work for us and you have these Bill Russell 00:05:41 skills, we will hire you in 48 states. Bill Russell 00:05:43 That used to be a no-no. Bill Russell 00:05:45 Yeah, my finance team would come to me and be like, we're not doing taxes Bill Russell 00:05:48 in 48 states, but now I guess it's just part of the part of the world. Bill Russell 00:05:52 Are you guys doing some of that? Bill Russell 00:05:53 We've Zafar Chaudry 00:05:53 expanded. Zafar Chaudry 00:05:54 So our primary business was in Washington, Alaska, Montana, and Idaho. Zafar Chaudry 00:05:58 We've added Georgia, Florida, and Texas during the pandemic. Zafar Chaudry 00:06:03 And we do have some it folks in Florida, Georgia, and Texas Zafar Chaudry 00:06:07 now, but they're very isolated. Zafar Chaudry 00:06:09 So that's one issue that Bill Russell 00:06:10 you come across. Bill Russell 00:06:11 They're never coming into Zafar Chaudry 00:06:12 the office. Zafar Chaudry 00:06:13 Potentially maybe once a year for a team meeting or some people Zafar Chaudry 00:06:17 will try to come together and regions and have a team meeting. Zafar Chaudry 00:06:21 It's not helped that much in the sense that you're right. Zafar Chaudry 00:06:25 There's, there's too much competition for tech talent. Zafar Chaudry 00:06:28 It's hard to compete with the salaries that are being offered Zafar Chaudry 00:06:31 by other technology companies. Zafar Chaudry 00:06:33 So we are really leveraging mission to try and retain people, but I can Zafar Chaudry 00:06:39 tell you for us and during this whole. Zafar Chaudry 00:06:42 We had an 8% turnover rate at children's and in it, it's now 18%. Bill Russell 00:06:49 It's, children's very distinct. Bill Russell 00:06:51 Like you, do you try to find people with children's hospital experience Bill Russell 00:06:57 and background or, I mean, the technology is the technology, right? Bill Russell 00:06:59 So routers or routers, emails, emails, switches, switches, that kind of stuff. Bill Russell 00:07:04 But the EHR patterns and the workflows, are those pretty Bill Russell 00:07:08 specific or are they pretty kind of. Zafar Chaudry 00:07:12 Based on whatever vendor you have, you try to Zafar Chaudry 00:07:14 seek out with some skill. Zafar Chaudry 00:07:17 So if you have vendor a that's fine, you might have vendor B skills Zafar Chaudry 00:07:22 and you can transfer those skills. Zafar Chaudry 00:07:24 But for the, for commodity it, we don't tend to seek pediatric experience, Zafar Chaudry 00:07:29 which is, look, as you said, a switch is a switch to the switch. Zafar Chaudry 00:07:32 Yeah. Bill Russell 00:07:33 How, um, innovation on the innovation side, I love Bill Russell 00:07:37 to hear what people are doing. Bill Russell 00:07:39 Through the pandemic. Bill Russell 00:07:40 What's the most innovative thing that you guys have really seen? Bill Russell 00:07:43 I would say Zafar Chaudry 00:07:44 that, uh, rolling out the vaccine at mega pace Zafar Chaudry 00:07:47 has been the most innovation. Zafar Chaudry 00:07:50 I've seen like ways of how to do that, how to automate that, how to have a Zafar Chaudry 00:07:54 whole scheduling system built in next to no time going to remote working. Zafar Chaudry 00:08:01 Those are all things we never got traction on. Zafar Chaudry 00:08:05 The pandemic has certainly pushed that. Zafar Chaudry 00:08:08 But I see a bit of a slow down now because clinically you've got a lot of burnout. Zafar Chaudry 00:08:13 So when you talk about, can we put more innovation in, can we do some automation? Zafar Chaudry 00:08:19 They don't have the bandwidth to participate in the project. Bill Russell 00:08:22 Yeah, it's interesting. Bill Russell 00:08:23 Because prior to the pandemic, some of these things would have been really hard. Bill Russell 00:08:27 We've really focused in on the consumer experience. Bill Russell 00:08:29 I go into three different conferences. Bill Russell 00:08:31 I had to get tested before each conference and now I just go out. Bill Russell 00:08:36 And I'm getting tested in places that aren't my hometown. Bill Russell 00:08:39 So I just find a place, get scheduled an appointment through tests, you Bill Russell 00:08:43 know, give me the, give me the results. Bill Russell 00:08:45 That's the kind of, that's kind of thing that I think has become Bill Russell 00:08:49 the new baseline for expectation. Bill Russell 00:08:50 How do I make this easier for the patient? Bill Russell 00:08:53 How are you guys making things easier for Zafar Chaudry 00:08:57 we've? Zafar Chaudry 00:08:58 We built a digital front door application as part of the journey Zafar Chaudry 00:09:01 of the last 18 months without it. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:05 Telemedicine into that space. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:07 We did a Cerner epic migration within the pandemic and went Zafar Chaudry 00:09:11 live just a year ago now. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:13 So my chart is available. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:15 That's integrated into our tele-health tele-health products Zafar Chaudry 00:09:20 that, so we've added those features, but we have an advisory board of Zafar Chaudry 00:09:25 patients and parents and caregivers, and they've been talking to us. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:29 The biggest thing we've heard from the group has been the equity to have. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:35 To equipment and internet connections, certainly in the pediatric space, Zafar Chaudry 00:09:39 not everybody has, you know, they may have four kids at home. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:43 Not every kid has their own laptop, right? Zafar Chaudry 00:09:46 Not everybody has a tablet. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:47 Not everybody has a fast internet connection to consume the apps Zafar Chaudry 00:09:51 that we create or even partake in telehealth telemedicine. Zafar Chaudry 00:09:55 So we've had to come up with a loaner program for those families Zafar Chaudry 00:09:59 that don't have this access. Zafar Chaudry 00:10:01 We will give you a device. Zafar Chaudry 00:10:03 With the 4g SIM card, and then you can consume that, that particular visit. Bill Russell 00:10:09 And that's, that's doable now that the cost of Bill Russell 00:10:11 those kinds of devices are not as expensive as they once were. Bill Russell 00:10:14 Yeah, Zafar Chaudry 00:10:14 it's doable. Zafar Chaudry 00:10:15 It's just, you don't have enough volume of right. Zafar Chaudry 00:10:18 Like either a hundred or 500 devices. Zafar Chaudry 00:10:21 You probably won't get them back. Zafar Chaudry 00:10:24 And so how do you keep handing out devices? Bill Russell 00:10:27 thank you for spending some time with us. Bill Russell 00:10:29 Thanks, Belgian. Zafar Chaudry 00:10:30 Pleasure. Bill Russell 00:10:31 Don't forget to check back as we have more of these interviews Bill Russell 00:10:34 coming to you, that's all for today. Bill Russell 00:10:36 If you know of someone that might benefit from our channel, Bill Russell 00:10:38 please forward them a note. Bill Russell 00:10:39 They can subscribe on our website this week, health.com or wherever you listen Bill Russell 00:10:42 to podcasts, apple, Google, overcast, Spotify, Stitcher, you get the picture. Bill Russell 00:10:47 We are everywhere. Bill Russell 00:10:48 We want to thank our channel sponsors who are investing in our mission to Bill Russell 00:10:51 develop the next generation of health. Bill Russell 00:10:53 VMware Hill-Rom Starbridge advisors, McAfee and Aruba networks. Bill Russell 00:10:58 Thanks for listening.