CHIME Fall Forum 21 – Dr. Sean Kelly with Well Health

Bill Russell 00:00:03 Today in health, it interviews from the chime Bill Russell 00:00:05 conference in San Diego. Bill Russell 00:00:07 My name is bill Russell. Bill Russell 00:00:08 I'm a former CIO for a 16 hospital system and creator of this week in health. Bill Russell 00:00:11 It a channel dedicated to keeping health it staff current and engaged. Bill Russell 00:00:16 Just a quick reminder. Bill Russell 00:00:17 I wouldn't be dropping interviews over the next couple of days and into Bill Russell 00:00:20 next week from the chime conference. Bill Russell 00:00:23 And then I'm going to have some more interviews from the next conference I Bill Russell 00:00:27 want to be going to, and then eventually I'll get back to Florida and to the studio Bill Russell 00:00:32 where we'll start looking at the news. Bill Russell 00:00:33 Once again. Bill Russell 00:00:34 Hope you enjoy this interview. Bill Russell 00:00:37 Alright, here we are from the chime floor with Dr. Bill Russell 00:00:41 Sean Kelly with, uh, with well health, uh, congratulations. Bill Russell 00:00:45 Where, where Dr. Bill Russell 00:00:46 So where do you practice Sean Kelly 00:00:47 at Beth Israel? Sean Kelly 00:00:48 Deaconess and Boston. Sean Kelly 00:00:49 Massachusetts. Sean Kelly 00:00:49 Oh, up in Boston. Bill Russell 00:00:50 Just came back from Boston. Bill Russell 00:00:51 Where you at the health conference? Bill Russell 00:00:52 Yes, it was. Bill Russell 00:00:54 How was Sean Kelly 00:00:54 it? Sean Kelly 00:00:54 It was good. Sean Kelly 00:00:55 It was really good for connections in industry, strategic partnerships, Sean Kelly 00:00:59 direction of the industry. Sean Kelly 00:01:00 It's less about meeting with provider side people at that. Sean Kelly 00:01:04 It was my, it, it Sean Kelly 00:01:05 was Bill Russell 00:01:05 really well put on though. Bill Russell 00:01:07 I mean, they, they, they do a, they do a great job with the conference Bill Russell 00:01:11 and I, I love the artwork too. Sean Kelly 00:01:12 Yeah. Sean Kelly 00:01:13 And it, it was, I think it was fun. Sean Kelly 00:01:16 I mean, uh, to me, you seeing the innovation is really interesting Sean Kelly 00:01:20 and some of the mix of the big companies and the little companies Sean Kelly 00:01:23 and everything in between and how that could be, you know, strategically Sean Kelly 00:01:26 cobbled together or stitched together. Bill Russell 00:01:29 Yeah. Bill Russell 00:01:29 Some of the conversations I was talking to a startup and, uh, there was two people. Bill Russell 00:01:33 I'm like, so tell me about your company. Bill Russell 00:01:34 It's like, it's us two and the three other people back in a coffee shop. Bill Russell 00:01:38 Right. Bill Russell 00:01:38 Here's my garage. Bill Russell 00:01:39 And they were showcasing their product and I'm like, well, what are you here for us? Bill Russell 00:01:43 Like, let's get funded. Bill Russell 00:01:45 Yeah. Bill Russell 00:01:45 Essentially. Bill Russell 00:01:46 We've, we've got a product we're showing it. Bill Russell 00:01:48 We've got some, they actually had some clients. Bill Russell 00:01:49 I was like, that's an impressive start. Bill Russell 00:01:52 I'm sure they're going to get some, some traction there. Bill Russell 00:01:54 So, uh, recently with well Sean Kelly 00:01:56 health. Sean Kelly 00:01:56 Yeah. Sean Kelly 00:01:56 I just joined well health as the chief medical officer and as a Sean Kelly 00:01:59 practicing emergency physician. Sean Kelly 00:02:02 Uh, really enjoy trying to bridge the gap between the real world with Sean Kelly 00:02:06 consumer grade technology and the world of healthcare that we've all grown Sean Kelly 00:02:10 up in and trying to usher that in, in ways that make sense for all of us. Sean Kelly 00:02:14 All right. Sean Kelly 00:02:14 So Bill Russell 00:02:14 you're going to educate me on wealth because I Bill Russell 00:02:16 just had Michelle Stansberry on the show is Houston Methodist. Bill Russell 00:02:20 And she talks about well health and she was very, uh, uh, she was excited about Bill Russell 00:02:24 the results that they were able to get. Bill Russell 00:02:25 So give us an idea of what. Sean Kelly 00:02:28 Uh, last mile of communications to patients, uh, it Sean Kelly 00:02:31 catches any signal you want to send them, whether it's coming from your EHR, red Sean Kelly 00:02:35 sketch or the numerous other third-party vendors, do billing forms, management, Sean Kelly 00:02:41 manual messaging, pretty much anything where you're trying to communicate Sean Kelly 00:02:44 with a patient in the ecosystem. Sean Kelly 00:02:46 Well, health can grab all that, pull it together and send it to you as Sean Kelly 00:02:49 a patient in a form that you want. Sean Kelly 00:02:51 It can be voice email, but the large predominance is, guess what? Sean Kelly 00:02:57 To your phone or your Bill Russell 00:02:58 other platform? Bill Russell 00:02:59 Well, that's the thing she was saying. Bill Russell 00:03:00 She said, you know, the, the portal is nice and we get the, you know, this Bill Russell 00:03:03 much activity on the portal, but we found that texting is a better forum Bill Russell 00:03:08 to, to interact because people are used to do that on an ongoing basis. Sean Kelly 00:03:13 Yeah. Sean Kelly 00:03:13 The trick is you have to go to where the patient wants to be and sending Sean Kelly 00:03:17 them to a separate place, whether it's an app, a portal, a third-party Sean Kelly 00:03:20 thing, your own hospital website can be problematic because there could be Sean Kelly 00:03:24 an authentication there's friction. Sean Kelly 00:03:25 Yeah. Sean Kelly 00:03:26 There's user issues and then coordinating a use case for gosh Sean Kelly 00:03:30 forbid you have to do three different things at three different places. Sean Kelly 00:03:33 If that can all be put together into a text with AI and chatbots automated, and Sean Kelly 00:03:41 it all just works and you can complete those transactions, you know, confirm an Sean Kelly 00:03:45 appointment, schedule appointment, or more valuable clinically relevant use cases Sean Kelly 00:03:51 around pharmacy, around, you know, meds around post discharge, pre discharge. Sean Kelly 00:03:56 Just think of the multitudinous use cases out about . Yup. Sean Kelly 00:04:02 Yup. Sean Kelly 00:04:02 The, the amazing thing is build the atomic elements are all there. Sean Kelly 00:04:06 And the funny thing for me, from my perspective, as many hospitals Sean Kelly 00:04:09 actually already owned the technology and it might be at the patient access Sean Kelly 00:04:13 level or the, you know, the, the call center level and someone in a silo is Sean Kelly 00:04:18 doing something with the technology. Sean Kelly 00:04:20 And at that very hospital, I talked to a CMIO. Sean Kelly 00:04:23 Those are most of my friends and see. Sean Kelly 00:04:25 And they're telling me about a problem that they're trying to solve manually Sean Kelly 00:04:28 throwing bodies at the problem, cold calling patients, trying to Sean Kelly 00:04:32 get them to sign up for a portal. Sean Kelly 00:04:34 They have the technology in their own hospital, and now we're just, and these Sean Kelly 00:04:38 are fun conversations for me, cause I'm just like, well, I'm gonna introduce Sean Kelly 00:04:41 you to the technology you already own. Sean Kelly 00:04:43 And you're going to tell me about that use case and we're actually gonna start Sean Kelly 00:04:45 solving it, you know, right now today Bill Russell 00:04:48 it's interesting because automation is a Bill Russell 00:04:50 conversation that came up a lot. Bill Russell 00:04:52 At the, uh, at the health conference. Bill Russell 00:04:54 And I assume it's going to come up here at the chime conference as well. Bill Russell 00:04:57 And part of that is just, we're looking at a significant nursing shortage. Bill Russell 00:05:01 We're actually going through vaccine mandates right now. Bill Russell 00:05:03 And we're seeing a natural reduction, um, in an already strained workforce. Bill Russell 00:05:08 So that, that automation level, I assume is the, is the power of this. Bill Russell 00:05:13 Is that pretty accurate? Bill Russell 00:05:15 Absolutely. Sean Kelly 00:05:15 That's one of many, you know, it's, it's loyalty and Sean Kelly 00:05:18 it's it's patient engagement. Sean Kelly 00:05:19 It's usability, but absolutely automate. Sean Kelly 00:05:22 Allows everyone on the healthcare side to operate at the top of their license. Sean Kelly 00:05:26 You want doctors doing doctor things, a nurse is doing not nursing things. Sean Kelly 00:05:29 And even, you know, front end staff doing things that are the most valuable humans Sean Kelly 00:05:34 should be doing, not doing things that can be automated and taken off the table. Sean Kelly 00:05:39 And, you know, instead of the scale of someone following up Sean Kelly 00:05:43 on a patient and getting through 10 or 12 calls, you can do. Sean Kelly 00:05:47 80% empirically 80% are taken care of through automation, 20% kick Sean Kelly 00:05:52 up the higher level use cases are then dealt with by human beings Sean Kelly 00:05:56 who can do that higher order stuff. Sean Kelly 00:05:58 And then even more interesting as you, as you move along a month or two later, Sean Kelly 00:06:01 you can analyze what's bumping out to the humans and then add that into the Sean Kelly 00:06:06 automation and refine it more and more. Bill Russell 00:06:08 I think what my, the audience would want to hear Bill Russell 00:06:10 is how hard is this to stand up? Bill Russell 00:06:11 So we have a lot of projects. Bill Russell 00:06:13 We're bringing a lot of new stuff in. Bill Russell 00:06:14 Is this a, uh, a real heavy. Bill Russell 00:06:17 It's not like I can hear the operational lift in the background, but from a Bill Russell 00:06:20 technology perspective, it doesn't sound like that heavy, but Lyft. Sean Kelly 00:06:24 Yeah. Sean Kelly 00:06:24 Luckily it's not, it's already baked into the Cerner Sean Kelly 00:06:26 HealtheIntent platform to Meditech. Sean Kelly 00:06:29 It integrates really well with epic and then a lot of other third-party vendors. Sean Kelly 00:06:33 And the beauty of it is the genius of it is it knows exactly where Sean Kelly 00:06:36 it should live in the ecosystem. Sean Kelly 00:06:38 Not trying to be the brains of anything. Sean Kelly 00:06:40 It's not the, you know, the content curation or development in the Sean Kelly 00:06:44 background is very plugged in. Sean Kelly 00:06:46 You don't have to custom code everything. Sean Kelly 00:06:49 It just links into those. Sean Kelly 00:06:50 There's an integration. Sean Kelly 00:06:51 But once you're integrated into the major ecosystem partners, Bill Russell 00:06:55 then your operations team kicks in and they, they look Bill Russell 00:06:57 at all the various touch points and say, could this be better? Bill Russell 00:07:01 Anything other than tax? Bill Russell 00:07:02 I assume you can deliver. Bill Russell 00:07:03 Yeah. Bill Russell 00:07:03 Um, Sean Kelly 00:07:03 pretty much on anything you have VR, you can do email and, um, Sean Kelly 00:07:07 you know, a lot of places use it for links to, to enable telehealth visits Sean Kelly 00:07:11 through COVID and beyond a lot of specialized COVID use cases that really. Sean Kelly 00:07:16 Give those out for free and, um, got people using it. Sean Kelly 00:07:19 And you know that, of course, as we've talked about, a lot of the Sean Kelly 00:07:22 tele-health is now here to stay. Sean Kelly 00:07:24 And so those use cases have stuck and other mission critical use cases out Bill Russell 00:07:28 there. Bill Russell 00:07:28 So, so why continue to practice just out of curiosity? Sean Kelly 00:07:31 Cause oh, for me. Sean Kelly 00:07:33 Oh, I, my passion is, is, you know, kind of living on both sides of the fence. Sean Kelly 00:07:37 It keeps me honest, both ways, right? Sean Kelly 00:07:39 The express you're meeting your own. Sean Kelly 00:07:42 I mean, you, you have to, you have to, you have to know what you're trying Sean Kelly 00:07:45 to do from the industry side to know what the world of medicine is like, and Sean Kelly 00:07:49 healthcare is messy, but it's gratifying. Sean Kelly 00:07:52 So seeing patients now is still fun and gratifying. Bill Russell 00:07:56 It's interesting because that is CIO panel. Bill Russell 00:07:59 Uh, all these CEO's who used to be doctors who became CIO and three of Bill Russell 00:08:03 them essentially took a different approach to continuing to practice. Bill Russell 00:08:06 One, continued to practice. Bill Russell 00:08:08 Cause they're like, look, I that's my credible. Bill Russell 00:08:11 Another essentially said, look, I can't in good conscience, continue to practice. Bill Russell 00:08:15 Cause I can't keep up on all these skills that are required and, Bill Russell 00:08:20 and medicine is rapidly changing. Bill Russell 00:08:23 Uh, and then the other one said, I, I do, I went to telehealth visits Bill Russell 00:08:28 on a, uh, I think like two, two or three days a month, essentially. Bill Russell 00:08:33 It's like, it's the least I could possibly do. Bill Russell 00:08:35 And you know, I'm seeing, seeing certain kinds of patients triaging stuff. Bill Russell 00:08:38 So it's. Bill Russell 00:08:40 No it's stuff, I guess you've learned in your first year Bill Russell 00:08:42 of med school kind of stuff. Bill Russell 00:08:43 So, yeah. Bill Russell 00:08:44 Um, so it's, it always fascinates me. Bill Russell 00:08:46 Why people either choose to continue to practice or whatnot. Bill Russell 00:08:49 What do you think is top of mind? Bill Russell 00:08:51 I asked you this question before, what do you think is top of mind here? Bill Russell 00:08:53 That the thing I'm saying, I think it's this labor thing is the thing I'm hearing Bill Russell 00:08:57 over and over again is I just, I just lost a handful of my staff from it. Bill Russell 00:09:02 I'm worried about my it staff being that's now working remote, Bill Russell 00:09:06 getting plucked away from me. Bill Russell 00:09:08 And obviously the, you know, the, some of the nurse shortages and whatnot, they're Bill Russell 00:09:13 getting tasked with that kind of stuff. Bill Russell 00:09:15 That's what I think is the top of mind right now. Sean Kelly 00:09:17 Yeah. Sean Kelly 00:09:18 We can chat about that for a second. Sean Kelly 00:09:19 And I think, you know, burnout is a big issue and staffing issues and, you Sean Kelly 00:09:23 know, it's been there for a long time, got a lot worse during the pandemic, Sean Kelly 00:09:26 but, you know, from someone who works on the front lines has done a lot of work. Sean Kelly 00:09:30 That can be difficult work. Sean Kelly 00:09:33 It's, it's less about the, the amount of work you're doing, but the type of. Sean Kelly 00:09:37 And so if you're doing work, that's what you actually want to do. Sean Kelly 00:09:40 And patient care, direct patient care can be really hard work, but if it's Sean Kelly 00:09:46 directly impactful to the patient and you feel like you're using your skill Sean Kelly 00:09:49 set in an efficient manner and spending your time doing the things that you Sean Kelly 00:09:53 were trained to do, and it's having an outcome, even if it's a difficult outcome Sean Kelly 00:09:57 someone's coming in, you know, sick and dying from COVID and intubate them, Sean Kelly 00:10:01 prone them and send them to the ICU. Sean Kelly 00:10:04 But that's not where I get burnt out, where the burnout comes from as if Sean Kelly 00:10:08 despite all that stuff we're dealing with and, you know, putting on PPE, Sean Kelly 00:10:12 donning and doffing that, and all the procedural changes and all that. Sean Kelly 00:10:16 If then I get blocked out of the EHR or I, you know, I can't, Sean Kelly 00:10:18 I can't message each other. Sean Kelly 00:10:20 You know, if there are all these artificial barriers and frustrating Sean Kelly 00:10:23 clerical or regulatory or compliance work or litigious stuff, that's frustrating. Sean Kelly 00:10:29 And that's not what you said. Sean Kelly 00:10:31 For and more and more in the us healthcare system, that just the Sean Kelly 00:10:34 burden of that keeps increasing. Sean Kelly 00:10:36 And even some of the tools we know we use like, like EHR is, are Sean Kelly 00:10:40 very good at passing the burden of documentation onto the front end user. Sean Kelly 00:10:44 And, you know, nothing happens until it's documented to happen. Sean Kelly 00:10:47 Things like that turn into a lot of extra work. Sean Kelly 00:10:51 And Bill Russell 00:10:51 it's interesting. Bill Russell 00:10:52 This is going a little long, but I love when I get, get to speak with the Bill Russell 00:10:55 doctor, because one of the, one of the things we tend to do in health, And Bill Russell 00:10:59 um, critical eye towards us is we get excited about like, oh, I think this Bill Russell 00:11:04 is going to solve interoperability. Bill Russell 00:11:05 If I I've heard that, like half dozen times since I came into healthcare, Bill Russell 00:11:08 like I think we've got, um, one of the things I hear is ambient listening Bill Russell 00:11:13 and, and voice those kinds of things. Bill Russell 00:11:15 It helps, but it, I have, have you worked a lot with various tools? Sean Kelly 00:11:19 I have not. Sean Kelly 00:11:20 I have not worked with that. Sean Kelly 00:11:21 Especially recently. Sean Kelly 00:11:22 We experimented with like Google, Google glass a long time ago at our hospital. Sean Kelly 00:11:26 And. Sean Kelly 00:11:27 I will say this. Sean Kelly 00:11:28 I think it's really important to work from the use cases backwards. Sean Kelly 00:11:31 Right? Sean Kelly 00:11:31 Don't try to push sexy technology into healthcare because it's a Sean Kelly 00:11:35 great technology looking for a home. Sean Kelly 00:11:37 You really got to think about the use case first, look at the atomic Sean Kelly 00:11:40 elements of that use case and figure out how they're best addressed. Sean Kelly 00:11:44 And sometimes it's it's technology that's already commercially Sean Kelly 00:11:47 available in different industry. Sean Kelly 00:11:48 We're just not using it in. Sean Kelly 00:11:50 For whatever reason and, you know, fear of HIPAA, HIPAA violations, or Sean Kelly 00:11:54 for some other artificial reason. Sean Kelly 00:11:55 And, you know, maybe we should be using a proven technology in healthcare. Sean Kelly 00:11:59 That's from other industries. Sean Kelly 00:12:00 Sometimes we have to start from scratch, but regardless I'm a big fan of starting Sean Kelly 00:12:05 with what are we actually trying to do and not replicating bad workflows Sean Kelly 00:12:10 or bad practice or voodoo that we've been doing for 20 years, just because Sean Kelly 00:12:14 that's the way we've been doing. Sean Kelly 00:12:16 But really think about what should we be doing here? Sean Kelly 00:12:19 And, you know, we should be getting doctors and nurses to your point, Sean Kelly 00:12:23 focusing on the patient, caring for the patient and allowing all that repetitive Sean Kelly 00:12:27 documentation and order entry and all these other things that are clerical Sean Kelly 00:12:32 somehow happen and be offloaded. Sean Kelly 00:12:34 And whether that's using AI or, you know, other processes Sean Kelly 00:12:39 and technologies, it's fine. Sean Kelly 00:12:41 But we gotta be crystal clear about the use case first. Sean Kelly 00:12:43 Right. Sean Kelly 00:12:44 And just. Sean Kelly 00:12:45 And that's the disruptive part and start from that and kind Sean Kelly 00:12:49 of pull the technology into it. Bill Russell 00:12:51 And by the way, Sean, thank you for your time. Bill Russell 00:12:54 Talking Sean Kelly 00:12:54 with you as always. Bill Russell 00:12:56 Don't forget to check back as we have more of these interviews Bill Russell 00:12:59 coming to you, that's all for today. Bill Russell 00:13:01 If you know of someone that might benefit from our channel, Bill Russell 00:13:03 please forward them a note. Bill Russell 00:13:04 They can subscribe on our website this week, health.com or wherever you listen Bill Russell 00:13:07 to podcasts, apple, Google, overcast, Spotify, Stitcher, you get the picture. Bill Russell 00:13:11 We are everywhere. Bill Russell 00:13:13 We want to thank our channel sponsors who are investing in our mission to Bill Russell 00:13:16 develop the next generation of health. Bill Russell 00:13:18 VMware Hill-Rom Starbridge advisors, McAfee and Aruba networks. Bill Russell 00:13:23 Thanks for listening.