The Entry-Level Job Crisis, Consulting Collapse, and Shadow AI | Newsday

This transcription is provided by artificial intelligence. We believe in technology but understand that even the smartest robots can sometimes get speech recognition wrong. The Entry-Level Job Crisis, Consulting Collapse, and Shadow AI | Newsday [00:00:00] Speaker: I'm Bill Russell, creator of this week Health, where our mission is to transform healthcare one connection at a time. Welcome to Newsday, breaking Down the Health it headlines that matter most. Let's jump into the news. Bill Russell: It is Newsday and we have the Intrepid Drex de Ford and the wonderful Sarah Richardson. Who has been on the road? My gosh. Sarah, it is good to have you off the road. How long have you been on the road? Sarah Richardson: Well, I was a 12 day run, um, home until Wednesday, and then I'm home for like another 12 days after that. Um, but it always goes back to. was about these massive communities and how integrated we are into them and how grateful they are for really, honestly the insights and the perspectives that we're bringing to the table. So totally worth it and, uh, you know, grateful to be home with Anna and the Meows for a few days, though for sure. Bill Russell: Well, we, we do serve in a great community. We have, uh, received our 2025. Thank you [00:01:00] plaque from Alex's Lemonade Stand Top fundraising award. This is not really about us, it's really about the community Drex DeFord | 229Project: Absolutely. Bill Russell: uh, we are just the, uh, the people that rally the community and let them know about it. And, uh, no, we are, we are, um, gosh, we're approaching half a million dollars essentially is what we're approaching, which is pretty, pretty amazing. When we started this out and set a goal for, uh, I think it was 50, was the first year set a goal for 50. Sarah Richardson: year. Bill Russell: People always say, you know, Billman, you have such a great vision. You could see things. And I'm like, I didn't see this. I didn't see us raising this much money. I just, I'll be flat out honest with you that, um, the community has surprised me at every turn, uh, with regard to this. So I'm really, uh, excited. Uh. Drex DeFord | 229Project: It's a, it's a great story and it's not just hats and shoes. There are lots of people who make donations at summits or even not at summits that are just 25 bucks here and a hundred bucks there. Like people are super generous and so thank you. Sarah Richardson: And we got to add new skills to our resumes. You, [00:02:00] you do shoes and I, you, you're a shoe salesman and I'm a shipping department. It's the beautiful, beautiful thing. Bill Russell: And I'm a, a graphic designer who does hats and embroidery now. So, Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah. Yeah. Bill Russell: Exciting stuff. We,, no, we, we really appreciate the community and, and you know, what we get, get to do. I think it's a lot of fun. Gosh, we have been on the road. We've been talking to people. There's been a lot of stuff going on. I see that. Uh, let's see. Well, you know, we, we could talk about mythos if, if you'd like. I mean, you guys talked about mythos the last time you were together, but we could talk about it some more. We could talk about, uh, uh, you know, cursor uh, tying up with X AI, I think is, uh, interesting as well. Um, you know, one of the questions I want to ask you guys is, do you see, so Drex, we sat in that room. And we saw a CISO talk about their, uh, password reset, uh, help desk app, which was going to reduce the amount of labor they needed to do this and improve the efficiency and, and all those things. Um, and they built it, they did it [00:03:00] themselves. And I'm, I'm. I don't see a huge movement towards this per se yet, but I'm starting to feel it in pockets. I, I, I posted a, a, a note i I, one of my blog art, our articles on, uh, this healthcare CIO playbook. Um, got a couple people just reaching out to me directly like, Hey, thanks for, you know, it's like the underground. Thanks. Thanks for talking about it. Drex DeFord | 229Project: thanks for hyping the Shadow AI departments. Bill Russell: It's like, like, tell me, tell me what you're doing. Oh my gosh, we're taking feeds from this and we're taking fire feeds and we're moving it in here. We're doing this thing. And I'm like, that's interesting. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah. Bill Russell: but I'm curious what you guys think. I mean, 'cause it, it does create, it shadow ai, it, it creates, um, potentially some security issues, definitely some governance issues if we're, you know, just letting any. Anybody with Claudes, all of a sudden's writing code and stuff. We create some governance issues. As I'm, as I'm delving into this governance around this is challenging. And, and Sarah, you've written about that, so I, I'm curious what, what you think, Sarah, I'll [00:04:00] start with you since you are going to MIT and uh, getting, getting this certification in ai. Sarah Richardson: Which, which I always laugh and love because, you know, this UNLV grad can surprise you, uh, I suppose at, at every turn. So Drex DeFord | 229Project: the heck did she get into MIT? Sarah Richardson: get into MIT? Well, it turns out anyone can actually probably get into their, uh, their executive learning development classes. So you said that it's about shadow IT and shadow ai and yet this is still within the realm of the IT teams and to me, uh, it's a couple things. And so we already know that the whole space of. Enterprise risk is a conversation for everybody. And so if we're developing our own apps, and heck we're doing it here at this week Health, and we're a bunch of former CIOs playing with it with the same guardrails, like where are we exposed that we don't see it, so what do we need to be knowing about? Can we respond at the speed that the vulnerabilities are now found? So how are we putting our own tools into, into production for us? [00:05:00] And do you even say ops and clinical leaders and others understand what this risk looks like as well? So if we are literally we making our own cookies, I don't like, you know, term sauce making our own cookies, but we're also reviewing the recipe constantly. just built a lab sandbox for the exact things you're worried about with your vendors, that you're hiring your partners. And so I love when organizations are doing the innovation themselves and they're also still working with partners because the things you have to now do to keep yourself safe are the kind of questions you're asking your partners and the expectation that you're both holding yourselves up to those standards and level of accountability and trust that goes with it. Bill Russell: I'm hearing optimism there. Drex, are you gonna pull us back to Earth and, and give us the fear that we, we, we need to keep us grounded. Drex DeFord | 229Project: I, I don't know if I'm, I, I don't know. I, I, you know, I'm an optimistic guy. Generally that's kind of how I am wired. But, um, over time I've become a, I say this, you know, in the podcast pretty regularly, the, oh my gosh, that's so [00:06:00] amazing. I love that we're doing that. And then in my next breath go, oh crap, that could be really bad. So, um, you know, I love the idea that Start to take it out as a roadblock to new ideas and new creativity and a lot of things that our end users can do and would love to do. I think it's a huge amount of education and coaching and teaching and making it easy for them to ask questions and get answers quickly. As we put these tools in their hands and they start to do some really amazing things, not just for themselves but for their department, and then, you know, for. Those outside the department. I, I think some of the challenge is, and, and a lot of this goes back to governance too. Folks are gonna build a lot of little nichey things that are gonna do little nichey pieces of work. And maybe that energy would be better put into something that serves the broader organization. And I think there's [00:07:00] a lot of us are, a lot of folks are kind of struggling with that. I talked to somebody who does analytics this morning and, and that's what they were saying is that like there's a lot of folks who get addicted to a thing they wanna buy or a thing that they want to build, but in fact it's like, oh, that's a really nichey thing. We really want it to be bigger than that. Bill Russell: You know what's interesting is I, I think that's, if I were doing shadow ai, if I wanted to be shadow ai, like a new Marvel character, Sarah Richardson: You kind of are. Bill Russell: it would, uh. Drex DeFord | 229Project: love Shadow. AI is a Marvel character though. Bill Russell: We could, I, I would start with the, the data feeds and I would, my, my, my entree would be, I wouldn't be talking to the CIO, I'd be going to whoever has the repositories that can give me information to data or information to feeds or fire connections or whatever. That's probably where I would, I would start maybe even, maybe even some operational feeds as well. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Go back to the, like, the good old, bad old days. When we first started deploying any kinds of systems, we had a [00:08:00] lab system, we had a rad system, we had a pharmacy system we had, and we tried to figure out how to strap them together with interface engines and it, it was a terrible. Time in our lives it, it mostly sucked and it got better and better over time because we went to one database and we could use that one database and we could do a bunch of things. Now, interoperability is the term now, and it's still okay, Bill Russell: still island over here. Island over here. Island over here. Let's connect 'em up with. Drex DeFord | 229Project: if I was building Shadow AI today, the way I would think about doing it, that would make it. Less nichey and more scalable over time is that I would look at whatever you're using, the Databricks environment or whatever you're using for like an enterprise data warehouse or whatever the right term is today, and say, my feeds are gonna come from that. That's the source of source of truth for our health system, and ultimately if I can get permission at some point to write back to it, then that [00:09:00] my Nicheness Bill Russell: Yeah, so, so Sarah, I'm gonna come back to you and say Absolutely. We had a group of CIOs and two of them talked about their very mature. Uh, I, uh, uh, data environments and they were very mature, Databricks and, you know, and, and, and, uh, governance around it and, definitions and all the things you, MDM, you name it. They had all those things around it. And, uh, and the other CIOs were like, man, you could see them with longing in their eyes, like, wow, that would be amazing. Oh, look, I could do it my health system if we were there. Um, but I, I assume. You know, I mean, Sarah are, I mean, do you feel like we have matured enough on the data side? Are you hearing that we've matured enough that we can, you know, I don't know, section off the right amount of data and make sure it gets used correctly? I. Sarah Richardson: Yeah, but there's, it's, my favorite answer is, you know, is always, it depends, but a couple things I like to think about is you don't have to have the perfect environment to be able to use some of the basics. We talked about making sure enterprise risk is something people understand [00:10:00] and appreciate. Have AI and partner governance covered, have that been part of your conversation. Run these things from a cross functional perspective and assume there may be exposure so you're, we're optimizing our responses internally. I would create an environment today that is a center of excellence, so there are pockets that are allowed to do this work. We're always coming back to the center to talk about it and I would still federate. Aspects of my data so that I don't have one place that's at risk. And so you might have your data warehouses and your data lakes, but if you also have these departments that really are controlling and managing their data appropriately through the right fabric that you've created in your organization, you can look that federated model. So those feeds that you want are something that is still made aware and you don't have to have the perfect environment. And let's be honest. Years ago when we spent 6, 7, 12 months creating all of the data management aspects. I mean, you can do that stuff in a couple of weeks if you really are managing the AI and the feeds [00:11:00] appropriately. And so the acceleration of the capabilities is as key as how you structure the environment. It doesn't have to be at the level of a major research institute with millions of dollars to put forward into it. Bill Russell: The article I read this morning was pretty interesting. One of the. Line items I used to hate on my budget was consulting. Um, 'cause it was huge. It was big Sarah Richardson: Yeah. Bill Russell: and some of it I couldn't control, right? So I had an internal auditor and I don't know, I'm, I mean, the, the bill was like 20, 30, $40,000 a month. They were always auditing something and finding something and working on something. Um, but they did other stuff for us as well. Uh, that consulting line always drove me crazy. Well, I saw an article today. That the, uh, the big consulting firms have rewired, you know, their whole model used to be get a whole bunch of college graduates, busy collecting a bunch of information, and then, you know, coming back with findings. And that model's sort of drying up. And what they are doing now is what we just talked about, um, helping organizations to [00:12:00] utilize AI effectively is now their core. Uh, message, like, we have a plan. We know what to do. Uh, we can, uh, connect up your disparate sources. Uh, we can, you know, we can do, uh, uh, we can help your team to, I don't know, learn how to use some of these tools or what, whatever it happens to be. But it's all around the use of AI wiring you up, making sure that you have the right governance, making sure you have the right security, uh, enabling your team to do things. That's how they're being re rewired. Drex DeFord | 229Project: so they're kind of pivoting from this idea that we're already experts in data. Now we can teach you how to be experts in data. Is that kinda, Bill Russell: it's, now it's, we can teach you experts in, in a, we we're experts in ai. We can teach you how to change your culture, to adapt to ai, change your processes. They see, I mean, this is like the old, um, gosh, what was it? Uh, CQM, uh, qu. It was one of the quality things. No, continue. It was process. Process improvement process management. When the consulting firms would come in and they'd [00:13:00] remap all your processes, those had to be the biggest projects in history. Like, we're gonna look at all your workflows, all your processes, all your data. I, I think they're doing this, uh, their, their pitch is the same thing. It's essentially AI has fundamentally changed. How we're doing all this, we're gonna bring agents into play. We have, we have to, we have to come back and look at all your processes again, all your workflow, all your data, and we have to, uh, we have to rethink it for the ai. H is, is what they're thinking, Drex DeFord | 229Project: an auditing perspective that you know, a lot of the Yeah, we're gonna hire a bunch of interns and put 'em in and they're gonna manually grind through all this data that, that AI agents can do a Bill Russell: right? That's, Drex DeFord | 229Project: now. Bill Russell: that's, that's why they're model, that's what they, they've. If they got hammered over the last year. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah, Sarah Richardson: Well, Drex DeFord | 229Project: could talk. Sarah Richardson: did. And honestly, I don't want, and I'll put myself in this boat, I don't want the 25-year-old version of me outta grad school. to talk to you. It's one thing to, to go through, like, I'm gonna map all your processes because that was my last project with my capstone for grad school. We need someone who's seasoned and has done this and has proven it [00:14:00] at scale, even though it's a newer tech or new Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah, there's perspective needed. Sarah Richardson: they've gotta have, they've Bill Russell: but it, Sarah Richardson: some tooth Bill Russell: But in Sarah Richardson: game. Bill Russell: fairness, Sarah, their, their model was to have someone like Drex come in and say, oh, I've done this a thousand times. And then you see Drex once a month. And he has, he gets this group of, of high school kids together, college, college kids together, college graduates, and he says. You go work with him and get this, you go, you do this, this, this. And he had a little playbook and they come back and they give him all the stuff and then direction would come meet with you and say, Sarah, I've been looking at all the data. And man, this is a great project. Really appreciate you. Here's what's going. So they, they never put the college kid in front of you. It's always. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Heres what it feels like. So we have this conversation in ai, now all the time about Human in the Loop. That sounds like Consultant in the loop, you know? Right? Like they, they have all the little guys out there, all the college kids out there getting all the data, and then they come back to the consultant and say, [00:15:00] here's what we think. And the co consultant presses the approve button and talks to the customer about what's happening in there, Bill Russell: Yeah, it's, Drex DeFord | 229Project: human in the loop, just different. Sarah Richardson: But can't you now create agents or aspects of AI that can do some of that for you? And I'm not trying to eliminate little analyst one and two jobs out there, except that half of the things that that role provided can now literally be done with an agent. And how cool is it? What if the three of us were actually doing this work for health systems? Um, and I'm not saying that's, you know, what we're gonna start working on. It's more about, Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna send you this survey or send you this. We're gonna have you talk to our agent. it's gonna collect all this data for you because then you're showing how we're using what we're gonna teach you how to do. Drex DeFord | 229Project: I mean, absolutely. There's no doubt a lot of that work can be done by agents now. And Sarah Richardson: have Drex DeFord | 229Project: I think there's Sarah Richardson: dresses all over. Drex DeFord | 229Project: there's, it's the general conversation that I, I mean, I, I wanna ask you guys, are you at all worried about. Like [00:16:00] future unemployment because of AI agents or, Bill Russell: this was gonna be my closing question. Thank you. So, uh, I have a nephew. and He's great. He's graduating from gw, uh, and GW is one of the best schools in the, in the country, uh, Washington, DC right down the street from, uh, uh, spitting distance to the White House. In fact, my daughter went to a college tour there and I said, Hey, where's the place like the park where you hang out? And he. It's the National Mall. It's the, it's that big thing in between the, the Lincoln Memorial and the Washington Monument. And, and I thought about it, I'm like, yeah, I guess if you have that, you don't really need your own, your own campus. And, uh, and it's pretty cool. So he is graduating from there and we had a conversation. He goes, uh, hey, you know, uncle Bill loved, you know, struggling to find a job and, okay, top tier school. Close to 80 grand. A 80 grand a a year to go there. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah. Bill Russell: and he's like, Hey, you know, can I get some help? You know, [00:17:00] finding a job. becuase it's, been really hard. I said, well, tell me about your experience so far. And his experience so far has been brutal. Like, at, at that, at that level, that level immediately is gonna, as Sarah has, has done. Ruthlessly by the way. She got rid of, she just got rid of him and his, his, his, uh, fellow graduates. Oh. And she dropped. Drex DeFord | 229Project: lost her. And see, this is what happens when you insult her. Bill Russell: I know. I should, I should actually, I wanted to get, I, I, I wanted to get her her take on it. Here she comes. Sarah Richardson-1: Sorry, I might, what happened to my, if you can't, there I go. I'm like, well, love when Zoom drops in the middle of one of our shows. Oh, and it says, Bill Russell: need, you need to move from rural America. Now it is rural in the sense that, you know, grapes, grapes and wine are rural. But, um, no, I was just saying, you know, so my nephew's struggling to find a job because people like you have, have essentially said, what do we need them for? We'll just throw AI in here and that's what we're gonna do. Sarah Richardson-1: No, it's different. You still need those people. [00:18:00] They just have a different, different view of their work, and so you're teaching them how to utilize these technologies effectively from the get-go I'm okay with the grad student or the. The new college grad who has the ability to interpret the conversation, because what gets lost in all of this is still that human element. And so there are jobs, there will be more jobs that continue to get created. They're just different than they were when we were in school. And it could be hard to find that first entry job. But here's the other thing. I worked all the way through college and grad school, so I already had all the connections that I needed, and I would actually encourage. Students to be doing those internships or doing those full-time or part-time gigs in some cases, that allow you to always be aware of the industry you're going into. It's why I went to hotel school in Vegas. You had to work in those environments in order to even get your degree. So you had a guar, you had a job, a career before you even graduated. Bill Russell: Yeah. Drex DeFord | 229Project: worried. Sarah Richardson-1: is a lens that might might follow more, more types of degrees in industries. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah, I worry about the [00:19:00] analyst ones and the analyst twos. And the analyst threes. You know, six months from now, I, I have friends who are very experienced programmers now who are having a hard time finding jobs because they haven't quite made the transition from, I'm gonna be a programmer to, I'm gonna check somebody else's work. I'm, and that's somebody else being an AI agent. Sarah Richardson-1: Yeah. Drex DeFord | 229Project: It's a, it's a different world and a different way and it's a different skillset and, um, and in cybersecurity and so many things I worry about, how are we gonna get those? Mid-level analysts are those senior analysts when they don't have an early career path or, or there's less and less of an early career path to go through to build the skills that you need. 'cause we're gonna wind up handing some of that stuff off to agents. Sarah Richardson-1: Yeah, there will be some that gets disrupted for sure because, uh, informal polling is only about 10% of the people utilizing ai And Bill, you're one of them, which is interesting. Can think with the intelligence lens of what AI actually means versus the generative lens of what it [00:20:00] means. And so that will be a differentiator and harder, but it'll start to also show you the chasm between those that are utilizing AI and those that are actually creating ai. Bill Russell: Talk. Talk about being a manager in this world. It's, um, you know, one of the things we did last week was we had a session where I introduced everybody to this assistant that I had set up on Claude, and, and we walked through everybody, uh, using it. Now, I have no illusions that everybody's gonna use it. They should, because I've never been more productive in my life with it. But everybody has to sort of. Adopt something at their own pace and figure that out. And I think that's one of the things people forget. You know, we still have laggards, we still have early adopters and Drex DeFord | 229Project: Hmm. Bill Russell: in between. And some of that's based on, you know, good things, bad things. Some of it's based on just who you are, right? And it's just, you know, some people will, uh, naturally gravitate towards it. So we have to understand that that's gonna happen. But we're creating a culture where it's like, Hey, the expectation is that you're gonna use it. I had a [00:21:00] conversation over the weekend with a entrepreneur, uh, actually a, a gentleman who owns a law firm and we were talking about, uh, how Claude could do some things for his law firm and, and that kinda stuff. And it was a really great conversation. He said, you know, I can't get my team to to use it because they don't like the formatting of the documents as it comes out. Now as I see that, what, what exactly You both had the same reaction. Drex DeFord | 229Project: in the world to fix. Bill Russell: If you've used it yourself, you're sitting there going, why don't you just give it the format you want and say, Drex DeFord | 229Project: I Bill Russell: put it. Drex DeFord | 229Project: like this. Here's a copy of the Word document that I want. Yeah. Bill Russell: And so I said, I said, uh, I said, try this upload, 'cause it's, it is trust and estates, right? So it's the same document over and over and over again. I said, upload, upload your document. So he uploaded this document. I said, all right, now upload some answers and tell it to just fill it in and keep the format and give it back to you in the same format. And he did. And it came back in the same format. I was like, Drex DeFord | 229Project: There Bill Russell: you have to create a culture where they're open and you also have to create a culture where. At some point you're [00:22:00] showing them and they're learning and they're, they're understanding what it's capable of. And we are talking like, I mean, we're talking base, basic, basic stuff here. Um. Drex DeFord | 229Project: That, that teaching part is such a huge part. I mean, sometimes anything like this, have a hard time getting their head around what it is and how do I use it, and how does it work. And so that ability to kind of. something and show it to somebody else, you'll eventually, everyone will be like, oh, you know, I kind of have a problem like that. Maybe I could try that. And then they get on board. And then once you start using it, the more you use it, the more you realize what you can use it for. And that crazy things that you can think of that you would've never even considered doing before. Bill Russell: the cool thing is we're having those conversations amongst us. 'cause we have a culture where it's like, oh, did you do this? Um, so Sarah, you've been on the, on the on planes and stuff, so you've read every one of my articles. Right. I love doing this to you in public. Sarah Richardson-1: I have read all your articles, which is why I was, I was realizing on Saturday, I'm like all engaged and [00:23:00] chatting. I'm like, they're probably like, you know, it's Saturday, right Sarah? And I'm like, I'm at the airport. I got all the Bill Russell: I know actually you sent like a hundred text message that's like. Sarah Richardson-1: I Drex DeFord | 229Project: the crap out of me. Bill Russell: Oh my gosh. Um, but I, I, I shared my, when people say, you know, how, how can I learn ai? And I, I shared my two word curriculum now and I was, I was one of those people that was like getting videos, sending to people. And, and I still do that, but, you know, and, and saying, well, this is how you learn ai. And I now have two words, which is ask it. Sarah Richardson-1: Ask it, which I started doing yesterday and I was like a different. A different response came out. And so I, I, I did a AB testing 'cause you know, that's what I do on Sundays is I told it and then I asked it different responses. And then I'm also testing out that theory on LinkedIn post just to see what type of engagement and ideas are coming through. So it's been, it's been pretty fun. And so, yes, I am reading all your stuff, which is why I even took screenshots of [00:24:00] your articles and sent them to you for areas where I believe. We'll have the most traction and stickiness with our audience in terms of how they feel about and adopt ai, especially as you are unveiling it to them in these stories. Bill Russell: All right. Drex DeFord | 229Project: you get for letting her go to MIT bill. Bill Russell: I know what, all right. Sarah's now my favorite track. You're number two. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Okay. Sarah Richardson-1: I'll take it for the week. Yes. Bill Russell: Oh my gosh, no, it's, uh, just ask it, it will change your life in front of ai. It's like, uh, you know, instead of sitting there going, Hey, I want you to do this. Say, you know, give it, give it the objective and ask it. And I will let you guys know how the, uh, trading bots are doing. I haven't looked at 'em today. Uh, I'm gonna try to only look at 'em on a weekly basis. But, um, but yeah, it's great. The one, it was just like, Hey, beat the s and p 500, like, create your mechanism for doing that. And I said, okay. And it created the whole bot for me and everything else. And I, so I now have three bots and that's the [00:25:00] one I'm most curious about. 'cause I like, Drex DeFord | 229Project: You gave it no direction. You just gave it a goal. Bill Russell: yeah, it was, it was like your, your 22-year-old kid, which is like, Hey, you've been educated. Like, go make a name for yourself. And then they come back in 10 years and they're like millionaires and they've done amazing things. And you're like, wow. Sarah Richardson-1: into your basement. So, you Bill Russell: Wow. Sarah Richardson-1: a. Bill Russell: there are, there are different things that could, Drex DeFord | 229Project: where you gave them a lot of Unin, unsolicited advice and guidance, and Bill Russell: exactly. Drex DeFord | 229Project: in your basement. Bill Russell: You know what you should do? You should do what I did as a career and you should, you should get into computers. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah. Bill Russell: a programmer. 'cause nothing will ever replace a programmer. Silence. Sarah Richardson-1: Hey, I, I have a hotel degree, bill. I get what you get. Bill Russell: Uh, hey, my degree's in economics. Hey. Oh yeah. We already had this conversation. You're, uh, you are the computer science guy. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Who? Me? Bill Russell: Yeah. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I have a master's in health informatics, but I also have a degree in radio, TV broadcasting. So I'm right back around Bill Russell: Oh my gosh. You are. Drex DeFord | 229Project: when I. Bill Russell: Maybe that's what I'll do next. Instead of going to MIT [00:26:00] I'll get like radio and TV broadcasting next. Sarah Richardson-1: only Drex DeFord | 229Project: There you go. Sarah Richardson-1: and some other certs, but this, this MIT class is fascinating and for those aware. Of what's coming from 2, 2, 9. My second, my entire second half of the class is actually based on signal reporting. So that's what Bill and I'll talk about in our one-on-ones is how I'm using out what we're doing as the case study for my capstone for MIT and my, my instructor is fascinated. I'm like, we might get Bill on a on an MIT Bill Russell: I help, you with a capstone, do I get a certificate of some kind? Sarah Richardson-1: Well, you paid for the class, so I'm just gonna say that you made a good investment. How Bill Russell: You, the answer should have been yes. You, you could just take yours, Sarah Richardson-1: I'll make you one. Bill Russell: take a picture and say make certificate sent to Bill. Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah, just put that Sarah Richardson-1: See, Drex DeFord | 229Project: that into Claude and Sarah Richardson-1: What would be the best way to get a certificate to my boss for thanking him for all the amazing, education we are getting from MIT Bill Russell: What [00:27:00] was your first computer movie that sort of inspired you? Sarah Richardson-1: war games? Bill Russell: Me too. Drex DeFord | 229Project: hmm. Sarah Richardson-1: Yeah, Bill Russell: Uh, well, if you watch it now, you realize how old it was. It's like really? It's really old. Sarah Richardson-1: still good Bill Russell: I, Matt, Matthew Broderick. I mean, I, I, I loved him in that, I loved him in Ferris Bueller's Day off. And then when he, uh, went to, uh, Broadway and did, um, uh, Sarah Richardson-1: producers, Bill Russell: the producers was exceptional. So, yeah, he, I, I wouldn't pick him as one of my favorites, but I sort of grew up with them and I, I do like 'em a lot, Sarah Richardson-1: What about you Drex? First, first Drex DeFord | 229Project: Oh yeah, I know I'm with you. War games. I think that was probably the, you know, very early. That's really interesting. And then, you know, you kind of go from there, so, Sarah Richardson-1: and that's how old you Bill Russell: cybersecurity. Drex DeFord | 229Project: yeah. Oh yeah. Right, right. Bill Russell: the, um, interesting thing about that is it's. It really wasn't realistic for its time. It's more realistic for [00:28:00] today. 'cause if you remember most of the stuff he did with it, he was like talking to it. He's like, would you like to play a game? And there was voice synthesis and he is like, well yeah, let's play thermo nuclear war, I think is what, what he said. It's Sarah Richardson-1: Nuclear Global War, I believe. Something like that. Bill Russell: yeah. And it fires up all the missiles. Crazy. Drex DeFord | 229Project: It is great. Sarah Richardson-1: you had Hal saying that, I can't let you do that, Dave. And then you were like the, maybe Drex DeFord | 229Project: might be the other one. Sarah Richardson-1: might 2001 Space Odyssey Drex DeFord | 229Project: Yeah. Sarah Richardson-1: actually have been the catalyst for curiosity, even though that was like hard to sit through. And so, especially when you're a kid. But, um. Drex DeFord | 229Project: I loved it. It starts with the, starts with the monkeys smashing the bones and smashing each other like it's one of, that is one of my favorite movies I've watched that I can't tell you how many times. Bill Russell: Oh man, we've, we've, we better pull an end to this or, or, Drex DeFord | 229Project: we should Bill Russell: Landon's gonna give me a, a bad rating on this show, so I wonder if people know who Landon is. Every now and then, they're gonna be like Landon [00:29:00] anyway. Drex DeFord | 229Project: landed on just for like a guest Bill Russell: He is, uh, do you think he's using AI to grade us? Sarah Richardson-1: Because you can tell by the comments just saying, Bill Russell: Landon, you've been found out. All right, man. Hey, thanks again. You guys were fantastic. Love doing this with you. Sarah Richardson-1: Yep. That's Newsday. Stay informed between episodes with our Daily Insights email. And remember, every healthcare leader needs a community they can lean on and learn from. Subscribe at this week, health.com/subscribe. Thanks for listening. That's all for now.