August 14, 2020: Sherri Douville is the President, CEO and Board Member for Medigram. We take a walk through the headlines to explore topics from Leadership, Work From Home, and leveraging conferences. Sherri shares wisdom for female leaders who aspire to the CEO role in Healthtech.
The thing about innovation is that innovation does not discriminate (11:14)
I think it's incumbent on all of us as leaders. To take our risk management skills. we've had as IT and apply them to our personal lives (24:48)
on 21st Century Cures: "So what I'm really excited about, and I'm looking forward to is the medical community really driving around some of these more complex data elements that we need to see. You know, codify it so that we can really make great use of FHIR” (26:41)
on Women Leaders: "And that's something I recommend to women to do is that we don't position ourselves as the genius in the garage or the end all be all. We position ourselves as people who can build teams, who can enable people who can develop people.” (27:10)
Leading HealthTech During a Pandemic with Sherri Douville
Episode 290: Transcript - August 14, 2020
This transcription is provided by artificial intelligence. We believe in technology but understand that even the smartest robots can sometimes get speech recognition wrong.
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[00:00:35] welcome to this week in Health IT where we amplify great thinking to propel healthcare forward. My name is bill Russell, healthcare, CIO, coach, and creator of this week in health. It, I said a podcast videos and collaboration events dedicated to developing the next generation of health leaders. This episode.
[00:00:50] And every episode, since we started the COVID-19 series has been sponsored by serious healthcare. Now we are exiting the series and Sirius has stepped up to be a weekly sponsor of the show [00:01:00] through the end of the year. Special thanks to Sirius for supporting the show's efforts during the crisis. And beyond today, I'm excited.
[00:01:07] I, I met Sherry Duvelle, who is the president CEO and board member at Metta Graham. mostly through social media, I was impressed with their social media posts. We started a conversation and I looked at her background and I thought this would be a great person to, to showcase on the show, to get her thinking on the industry and where things are going, what it takes to be a female leader for a health tech startup, what it takes to be successful as a health tech startup.
[00:01:32]she has great experience, great background. She has been quoted all over the place in a cio.com. NBC Becker's you name it? she has done great work. She's been a part of MIT technology review. She's been a part of Johnson and Johnson, just a great background. And I enjoyed the conversation and I hope you enjoy it as well.
[00:01:52] All right, today, we're joined by Sherry duvet. Well, the president CEO and board member for Metta Graham, which is a health tech company that [00:02:00] facilitates communication between. A clinician is it allows insights, reduces the time to treatment, you know, just all arrives, saves lives. It increases hospital revenue.
[00:02:09] Great. a great organization. Sherri. Welcome to the show.
[00:02:13] Sherri Douville: [00:02:13] Oh, thank you so much, bill. It's an honor to be here.
[00:02:15] Bill Russell: [00:02:15] So did I, did I get that right? Is that, is that the gist of what Metta Graham does?
[00:02:20] Sherri Douville: [00:02:20] That's exactly what we're working today. Yes. To save hundreds of thousands of lives and delay disability while helping health systems be successful.
[00:02:28] Bill Russell: [00:02:28] Yeah. That is the, that's the fun thing about, you know, once you really get going in the health tech space, if you establish, if you, if you get past that first hurdle of getting into, you know, getting past sales in the first couple of clients and getting funded, there, there is something about the ability that we have to, to impact literally hundreds of thousands of lives of helping peoples to get the right information of helping, clinicians to have a better experience all around.
[00:02:56] And, at the end of the day, really, you know, not only enhancing [00:03:00] lives but saving lives.
[00:03:01] Sherri Douville: [00:03:01] Yes. That is my life's work. So thank you.
[00:03:04] Bill Russell: [00:03:04] Yeah. It's exciting. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to, I think, you know, we've gone back and forth on this. I'm going to do is use social media somewhat. Cause that's how we met.
[00:03:13] We met through social media, and I'm going to use that to frame our conversation. But before we get there, I think there's, there's a bunch of stuff to really learn from your journey. So, give us, give us a little background on how you got to be the CEO, for a health tech startup.
[00:03:29] Sherri Douville: [00:03:29] Oh, thank you. And so before I joined this company, I was a consultant and I did, economic feasibility and physician acceptance research for primarily medical devices.
[00:03:40] And I had gotten into that because after about a dozen years, working at Johnson and Johnson, which is based on the East coast, I'm from Silicon Valley. So I wanted to see if I could build a career here locally and be more West coast space instead of moving. So I'd done a brief, program at Stanford called emerging entrepreneurs bio-design [00:04:00] and what I learned did they bring together, you know, physicians, engineers, lawyers, not many people have experienced out in the field, you know, working with physicians.
[00:04:09] And so I found it. Yeah, to be a great opportunity. And one of my clients, medical device, client introduced me to the founder and that's how I ended up becoming CEO. And the board appointed me when the founder decided to go back to medical school. Yeah,
[00:04:25] Bill Russell: [00:04:25] it's interesting. How each one of these health tech startups has, has their own story.
[00:04:29]at what point did you come in at what stage where you at, where you guys raising money? Was it early stage or had you already gotten through some of those stages?
[00:04:38] Sherri Douville: [00:04:38] Yeah. So that's how I had come to become CEO of the company is that I had brought in some of the early investors and the biggest investor and board member.
[00:04:48] And so that's what they were looking for that, you know, in the CEO. So how
[00:04:53] Bill Russell: [00:04:53] far along are you at this point? I mean, you guys have a pretty good client base. Are you [00:05:00] progressing?
[00:05:01] Sherri Douville: [00:05:01] Yeah, that's a good question. So what, we tend to a very nontraditional path. So I have a biopharma background. And so what I wanted to do after we had the testing of our first platform and dozens of clinics and got feedback on the functionality, we took a step back because we, we realized we didn't really have at the time.
[00:05:22] The regulatory and compliance infrastructure, you know, that we've been working on recently to build in terms of ISO 27,001, 27,000 to eight 53, you know, high trust and all the levels, and really making sure that we have that locked and loaded before we really try to go to market on an enterprise scale.
[00:05:44] I don't know. Does that answer your question?
[00:05:46] Bill Russell: [00:05:46] Yeah, it's it's it's it's interesting. Cause I just did a consulting project on that. A lot of the health tech startups are trying to figure out the, the compliance framework for not only hiphop, but for SA not Sox, but around, the [00:06:00] ISO compliance for their data center, and some of them around, Yeah.
[00:06:03] You know, taking payments and those kinds of things. it's it's not as, I mean, it's not as, as simple as what people think to just, Hey, go stand up an AWS account, start, start doing whatever you want in healthcare.
[00:06:17] Sherri Douville: [00:06:17] Exactly. I was talking to a friend that I'm working on a technical standard with, and he's based in Israel.
[00:06:23] And he was saying that even though they're using a public cloud, it's still like 80% of their own work on top of that to really meet the requirements of like a clinical IOT implementation. Yeah. So what, what to answer your question ultimately clearly, is that what we've been working on? What we, the initially the product was like, how do we enable physicians to use their phones?
[00:06:46] Cause right now, like, as we see in the pandemic, a lot of us are learning that environmental buildings are actually bad for our health. Cause they seal air in and they don't allow for air change. Well, There's also [00:07:00] unintended consequences with mobile computing, with modern buildings. For example, windows are coated with metal ions, but people who work on cell phones don't realize that they blocked cell phone signals.
[00:07:10] So there's a lot of technical challenges with mobile computing that we spent a ton of time helping to fix. And we were very fortunate to do some research published in the journal of hospital medicine. And it was, it was transparently laid out there that that was a challenge. You know, and so a lot of our early work was focused on that, but then as you know, to be successful in a healthcare environment, it's so much about the process and the people.
[00:07:38] So we really need is to also then take a step back, not just compliance and security, but also what is implementation? What's the change management.
[00:07:47] Bill Russell: [00:07:47] Oh yeah. And I've mentored a couple of startups as they engage health systems. And, it's interesting that where they start. And after they engage a health system, there's, there's so much, they [00:08:00] learn in terms of how to actually get their technology implemented.
[00:08:04] But there's also this phase where they, they, if they're, if they're going to make it, they will take that input and they will constantly be iterating on their product. And I saw this, you know, one of the, one of the people who did this. Extremely well, was Glen Tolman with, with Lavanya. I remember having those meetings early on and you know, now of course, very recent, you know, multi billion dollar, you know, success story, from their perspective, right.
[00:08:33] He was one of those people who was always asking questions. What can we do? How do we, and this is somebody who had been in healthcare, virtually his entire life. And was still in that. Yeah. Tell me what we can do. Tell me how we can do it better. You know, what are your clinicians saying? It was really interesting to see, and that's really the mindset that startups that make it have.
[00:08:54] It's like what, you know, what else do we need to do?
[00:08:58] Sherri Douville: [00:08:58] I completely agree with you. And [00:09:00] I, I just, I loved the email you had sent in, or some more preparation that feel free to correct you. I'm not, I'm not out to correct you at all, but I love my favorites thing is I am I'm ready to be wrong. That's what I always love to tell the team.
[00:09:14] And I, and I feel like to be successful in this environment, particularly in startups, but also in healthcare, we kind of have to incentivize people to be ready to be wrong instead of being. You know, wanting to defend being right. And I think we'll go a lot further.
[00:09:31] Bill Russell: [00:09:31] Yeah. You know, actually, while we're, while we're talking about this, let's let's, you know, it's, I've, I've two daughters and once, and once in college, one is, out of college and, I'm always, I was looking for role models to, to talk to them about, and I'm mentoring some people as well.
[00:09:46] I'm constantly connecting people, but it gives me an opportunity to ask you a question. That's that, that I think that the people I'm mentoring would love to hear, which is, you know, put yourself in that sort of mentoring role and, and [00:10:00] mentoring another, female leader. you know, let's, let's first talk about a woman who's not a CEO yet.
[00:10:05] How do you prepare knowing what you know now as the, as a CEO and board member, how do you prepare yourself? When you're not as you're progressing through your career so that you're, you're ready to take that, that type of role.
[00:10:20] Sherri Douville: [00:10:20] That's a great question. And, and I think that, Really self awareness is really the biggest lever that you have because you know, having daughters, you know, you probably have talked to them about it, or maybe you will talk to them about just getting a lot of mixed messages from a lot of stakeholders or.
[00:10:39] Or people or institutions, and really it's the clarity of having self awareness and navigating what I think women leaders face, you know, lots of paradoxes. And, and at some point, wait, I got to got to a point in this journey and I was very forced, said I brought in the biggest investor to the company is also my mentor.
[00:10:59][00:11:00] but, and, and we can talk about him. A lot of his name is Wim role and it's a great leader. He's got 34. You know, see as a Silicon Valley that he's mentored. And so, you know, has seen a lot of movies, mentored a lot of people. And, and the thing about innovation is that innovation does not discriminate.
[00:11:16] And so that's why he, you know, he is then very open to, mentoring, lots of different people, not just, you know, the classic prototype. And so I'd say to your daughter, you know, just work on, Understanding herself and understanding what motivates her and what she's interested in. understanding what drives her understanding sort of her, her own psychology.
[00:11:38] And that's the best place to start, you know, when you're young cause she's in college, right?
[00:11:42] Bill Russell: [00:11:42] Yeah. I mean, innovation doesn't discriminate is, is such one of the phrases I've been saying an awful lot to people is write your own story. Don't let anyone else write your story for you. They will have. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're going to have input.
[00:11:58] They're going to be supporting [00:12:00] characters or whatever, but make sure you're writing the story that you want to live. And that is such a powerful statement. Innovation does not discriminate. I will. that's going into my file.
[00:12:15] Sherri Douville: [00:12:15] Will do.
[00:12:16] Bill Russell: [00:12:16] Alright. Well, you know, so we're talking about a woman who is not a CEO yet. Let's talk about a woman who's getting ready for their first CEO role. So they they've, they've had a successful career. They've been identified as somebody who can run a company and somebody saying, all right, it's your turn to step into the role.
[00:12:31]what do you wish somebody had whispered in your year as you were getting ready to take that role?
[00:12:37] Sherri Douville: [00:12:37] W Y w I would just recommend that they, listen to their own voice and try to have empathy for people's reactions to your choices, you know? And so what I've learned in this journey is that. Much of the time, if there's a negative reaction, it really has nothing at all to do with me.
[00:12:56] And it has more to do with the person, potentially their [00:13:00] insecurities. Maybe they had some sort of past big success past technology, and now they're having trouble sort of renewing some kind of success. and so I think, one big message I wanted to get out today, especially with the pandemic is that there's a huge resurgence of bullying, just everywhere.
[00:13:19] And we see it all the time on social media and videos and everything. And so the one thing that really took me by surprise, it was really hard. and that made me a better person, was just, dealing with the bullies that came out, be prepared for that. And I actually wrote. A resource for that, then I'll direct you to you because it went viral.
[00:13:40] It was, I think that the title of it was the toxic jerk meeting guide and, and it's all based on research, on, you know, and so I'm all about, you know, using evidence to continually improve, you know, evaluate, you know, yourself, you know, make sure that, you know, kind of your side. Yeah. The street is clean.
[00:13:56]but then also, you know, just recognizing when things have nothing [00:14:00] to do with you, which is happens a lot, especially now, Yeah,
[00:14:04] Bill Russell: [00:14:04] it's on the bullying thing and I'm not sure I put it in that category, but I might put it in that category is, and I, and I saw some of the, some of the posts around, around wearing masks and clearly wearing masks that the evidence is just astronomical and in favor.
[00:14:20] Right? So if, if, if everybody's wearing a mask, the transmission, there's a reason that doctors have worn masks or. Yeah a century. so it's there. However, I see too many healthcare people screaming at people through social media. Like you're an idiot. You need to wear a mask. I'm like, that doesn't seem like the way I, I wouldn't look at my kid and say, you're an idiot.
[00:14:44] You need to study more. That doesn't seem to be. How we, move the, move the ball down the field in a productive manner. I mean, do you think, you think there's a better way to approach this? That we can get more people to just say, yeah, that, that makes [00:15:00] sense. We should be doing this. I mean, that's what I'm seeing when I go out on Twitter and I see people just, it feels like they're just slamming people for not wearing a mask instead of trying to, I don't know, help them to move down.
[00:15:14] Sherri Douville: [00:15:14] Yeah, that that's a great, great point. And, and I think you knew this it's been, I'm married to a physician. And so I do have a bias, a bias, you know, for masks obviously, and, and being, microbiology, you know, training and my background, you know, obviously, you know, seeing the benefits of mask, you know, we've gotten a lot of mixed messages from a variety of, What you would consider, authority figures.
[00:15:36] And so I, I tend to try to get to a place of empathy, both for those non mass workers for the healthcare providers, because, you know, if you put yourself in the shoes of the care providers and, and the, and the situation that they face with these patients, when they're in the ICU, especially if it's a busy zip code, Oh, that is a heartbreaking situation.
[00:15:57] People can't breathe. They've got [00:16:00] people waiting in the halls of the ed and these are situations and scenes that a lot of us Americans, when we're out in our communities don't really understand or are privy to. And so I have a lot of. And understanding for why this is physicians are so hard and angry about people not wearing masks, right?
[00:16:19] But at the same time, you know, the majority of our society are not scientists and they're not physicians. And they intellectually, if they're getting a mixed message about wearing a mask, not wearing a mask, which by the way is not the fault of the authority. Because when you think about people that are in public health, or even in infectious diseases, the thing about masks is about fluid dynamics and physics and environmental engineering.
[00:16:38] And that those aren't things that doctors. Are trained and not even the best doctors. So to blame them for lack of training and fluid dynamics makes no sense. Right. And so I think the idea of science and understanding that we're continuing to learn is something that we need to try to socialize and improve across society.
[00:16:56] Right. I don't know if that answered your question, but
[00:16:59] Bill Russell: [00:16:59] I'm not even [00:17:00] sure I ask the question. Actually. I think one of the best posts I saw, you may have seen this in a picture and it had. No, two people not wearing a mask and one person coughing. And I said, you know, chance of transmission and they had some percentage, and then they had one person wearing a mask, the other, not chance of transmission, you know, two people wearing a mask chance of transmission.
[00:17:17] And, you know, the percentage goes way down as you would, as you would imagine. And I thought that was, that was a great way to communicate
[00:17:25] Sherri Douville: [00:17:25] it. It definitely is, but that hasn't always been communicated to us as what the point I was trying to make. And a lot, lot of times, you know, policy, announcements are made based on supply chain, frankly, and, and said, you can see how it would be confusing, right.
[00:17:40] It's obvious scientific perspective, but.
[00:17:43] Bill Russell: [00:17:43] Yeah. All right. Well, you know, since we met on social media, I'm just gonna go through some of the things that are going out on social media right now. And, and, and just talk about it. You and I will have a conversation, so no hymns this year, the next time is going to be August of next year.
[00:17:58] But I mean, you're a health tech startup, a [00:18:00] lot of, a lot of healthcare companies. or at least people that are trying to sell into healthcare relied pretty heavily on him as a place to either kick off their marketing or to have communications with, with their healthcare, clients. how do you think that's going to impact the startup community?
[00:18:17] Does that slow us down in terms of, their progress or their progress in innovation or anything to that effect?
[00:18:25] Sherri Douville: [00:18:25] Well, I'm not sure startups. So if you're talking about sub series B in terms of capitalization and goals, so early in the life, you're, you're really driving to build your strategic partnerships.
[00:18:38] And, and so you would utilize hands more as a watering hole rather than a, than a conference venue, like a, like a Cerner or an Epic would. And so depending on the size of the company, I think I see the goals being very different. So I don't personally see. the change in hands being a huge barrier for startups now.
[00:19:00] [00:18:59] Yeah, no,
[00:19:00] Bill Russell: [00:19:00] that's interesting. Yeah. So depending on what stage you're at in your startup would depend on what your objectives are and going to that conference. And even, even then hymns might not be. The right conference to go to, depending on where
[00:19:11] Sherri Douville: [00:19:11] you're definitely the right conference to go to and says, I don't want to be confused.
[00:19:16] I don't want to confuse it. I just mean that the way that the type of tool it is based on the stage of company you are. So I always recommend to entrepreneurs to go to hymns because you need to understand what this guy's to saying. You know, whether you agree with it or not, you can't change something.
[00:19:31] You don't understand. That's one of the,
[00:19:34] Bill Russell: [00:19:34] one of the things I was talking to, I I've talked to our listeners about a couple of times is, you know, I go to three conferences. I go to every year is JP Morgan. I go to him. and then I ended up going to the health. I now go to the health conference. So, you know, if you go to JP Morgan, you're gonna see, I mean, that's about.
[00:19:55]that is a lot of startups there. It's close to you. So you're probably driving up there. I would [00:20:00] assume. the health conference also seems to be around that, innovation community, really connecting private equity, venture capital, even interacting with other startups and strategic partnerships and those kinds of things.
[00:20:14]but again, those two conferences, technically not a lot of healthcare providers, their HIMS is unique in that. There, there, there is a fair amount of healthcare providers there, and not only the executives, but also that the next level of technical users are at that conference as
[00:20:30] Sherri Douville: [00:20:30] well. That's a good point.
[00:20:32] Yeah. So,
[00:20:34] Bill Russell: [00:20:34] I mean, do you, do you find, do you like have different strategies going to different conferences?
[00:20:39] Sherri Douville: [00:20:39] I go to different conferences for different. And so I, I, the two for healthcare, that I do recommend and go to regularly are our hymns. and that, the national ones, that's going to be an August in Vegas.
[00:20:52] And so I'd like to do that in some fashion, whether it's in person or virtual, depends on how they manage their indoor air. Which is something I'll talk to [00:21:00] Hal about. and, and I, the purpose of the name national attendance is like, just like you said, it's with the CIO communities together, all at the same time, where they dedicated that time, you know, to catch up with people that are considering, partnering with, or, or that they're learning together with or learning from.
[00:21:17]and then, you know, they're, You know, the, the executives that they work with, they bring them along. And so, you know, Ken's is very valuable for that. Now I've also been involved with regional hands. I've been on the board of that. and that was hugely valuable. and to, in a different context, just more, to have the regular touch point with people who are working in these it organizations, you know, on a daily basis and to really understand, you know, what their life is really like.
[00:21:41] Cause I'm married to someone who's been. In hospital administration a long time, a couple of times. And so I lived vicariously through him and we actually worked together on a lot of the different initiatives that he, launched and executed, and some of them, but that's very different than it cause he's a physician.
[00:21:57] Right. And so we, we get to live [00:22:00] the same bridge-building that every it and, and physician organization, Ima I imagine, has to try to try to navigate, you know, in a work setting. Right. And then on JP Morgan, it's very specific the way that I spend my time. So I have certain people, that I'm trying to touch base with every year.
[00:22:16] And so it's a very, as a early stage company, we're a lot of hats, as a CEO and you have to be very careful with time. And so I have a 36 hour itinerary. that's very tightly packed than I normally execute on for J P Morgan. It's very different, very different objective. Yeah,
[00:22:33] Bill Russell: [00:22:33] it's interesting. I've never done so many 15 and 20 minute meetings than at JP Morgan.
[00:22:38] They tend to squeeze, squeeze things in, how they handle the air. I would think that Vegas would be one of the best places to have the conference. If, if that's, the indoor air. That's one of the things you're thinking about. When do you think.
[00:22:51] Sherri Douville: [00:22:51] I I've had, yeah, I had gotten some good feedback. I have a friend that runs a, or, an acquaintance that runs a large conference company, in a [00:23:00] different area.
[00:23:01] And he was recommending, I, I can't remember off the top of my head, but I can message you after this, about who he was recommending. Cause everybody he's really serious about having indoor meetings is taking a hard look at that right now. And
[00:23:13] Bill Russell: [00:23:13] hopefully by August of next year, we'll be looking at a different, landscape, but you know, we'll have to just, I just like everything else, you know, we're taking it month to month.
[00:23:21] See how things progress.
[00:23:23] Sherri Douville: [00:23:23] I'm optimistic. Yeah.
[00:23:25] Bill Russell: [00:23:25] Yeah. It's feeling more and more like August. but again, you know, just the sheer, I'm not a, I'm not a physician, but just the sheer numbers. So you either, either need a vaccine or you need, You know, herd immunity and the number of people that have to get vaccinated is pretty high, in order to get to the other side of this.
[00:23:46] So, which just means we have to get to a vaccine that works and then get it out to a significant number. So that, that's why I'm sort of telling people, you know, sort of a month and a month kind of thing. Let's see. When we get the first we get [00:24:00] past trials, let's see when we mass produce the vaccine, let's see.
[00:24:03] No, there's, there's just an awful lot of things that need to happen. But I agree with you, you know, I'm, I'm more optimistic today about August than I was even a couple months ago.
[00:24:16] Sherri Douville: [00:24:16] Yeah, well, I'd love to see it. And we've been trying to promote this just amongst friends and colleagues, but I would love to see them, you know, sort of aggressively, promulgating, a code of conduct, that really facilitates safe interaction.
[00:24:31] Cause I think we do. Need to find a way to resume business. And we actually, I had a chance to get our first, central adding fairly recently and we felt safe and because it was facing the ocean. So you have all the negative ions that help, you know, with filtering some of the virus particles. But, you know, I think it's incumbent on all of us as leaders.
[00:24:51] To take our risk management skills. So we've had an it and apply them to our personal lives, help our teams apply them and, and help [00:25:00] our family and friends. Then that's really how we're going to get through this. Right. So I would love to see everybody who's thinking about going to hymns. Thinking about with their infection control strategy is what their PPE strategy is.
[00:25:11] You know, what the distance strategy is because I do think that there's actually an opportunity. There was some study that was showing, you know, how everybody's quiet and their wives, like some sort of entertainment. You know, as long as they're facing the same way that, that, that that's, that could be safe, but it requires behavior change on our part and say, it's really going to come down to, you know, leadership, collective leadership, you know, committing to a certain set of behaviors for people to be safe and for it to actually be safe.
[00:25:40] So I'm optimistic as possible.
[00:25:43] Bill Russell: [00:25:43] Absolutely. All right. So last two topics. I want to just touch on 21st century church briefly, and then talk, work from home. I mean, it seems like we're, we're addressing some of these things. So let's start with 21st century cures. You know, one of the things about this is, you know, [00:26:00] patient directed access to the, to the medical record, through an open data standard, no special effort.
[00:26:05]you know, if you talk to people in government, They are really optimistic. They're like, look, this is, this is what this enables, and this is what, is possible. you know, it could be a potential explosion in innovation around the patient's medical record. We could see new fiduciaries, pop up. We could see patient in great engagement, really move forward.
[00:26:27] I I'm curious what your thoughts are and what you're seeing and what you're
[00:26:30] Sherri Douville: [00:26:30] hearing. Well, there's definitely a lot of excitement around it, but as you know, as well as anybody, you know, being, a recently, a former top CIO, the devil's all in the details. Yeah. So what I'm really excited about, and I'm looking forward to is the medical community really driving around some of these more complex data elements that we need to see.
[00:26:52]You know, codify it so that we can really make great use of fire because the way my perception of fire right now is that it's, it's, it's [00:27:00] great for sort of lightweight consumer use cases. And then, and then I did, did want to mention to you that I'd love to defer to people who have better expertise than I do.
[00:27:10] And that's something I recommend to women to do is that we don't position ourselves as the genius in the garage or the end all be all. We position ourselves as people who can build teams, who can enable people who can develop people. and so when one person I wanted to really recognize for being a great mentor, as well as a leader in this field is Lucia Savage and she was chief privacy officer dominancy, and, one of the privacy, You know, legal counsel, I think associate general counsel at United I'm now chief privacy officer at a model health.
[00:27:41]but also as huge steward of the industry. So I would recommend that you have her on to really give you the, All the correct technically. Correct. you know, current and future direction on 21st century cares, I mean, and need, should a lot of great work. And that says, thank you for pointing me to that.
[00:27:57] That was a great interview.
[00:27:59] Bill Russell: [00:27:59] No, I [00:28:00] I'd like to do more this fall. I mean, cause it's coming at us very quickly and you know, it's, it's funny. It's coming at us very quickly. It's been a. It's something that snuck up on us over 10 years. so it's kind of funny to say it's coming at us very quickly, but, but yes, the, the timelines are this fall.
[00:28:19] And I think a lot of people are, I'm going to try to cram for the test that's about to come down. So,
[00:28:25] Sherri Douville: [00:28:25] yeah, at least taking action in that, and that's.
[00:28:28] Bill Russell: [00:28:28] Yeah. And you know, I'd love that. I'd love that connection and, always, you know, love to have more diversity of thought on the, on the topic and talk through it and at different levels, right.
[00:28:40] Sherri Douville: [00:28:40] Yeah,
[00:28:41] Bill Russell: [00:28:41] I love Aneesh. he really understands the policy. He understands the strategy and where they're taking it. and, but then there's another level of, okay, you know, how does this play out? How does this play out in the organizations and how do we get the most out of it? How are we, are we thinking about it?
[00:28:57] How are we thinking about it from compliance? How are we [00:29:00] thinking about it from innovation? There's different. perspectives around this. So it would be interesting. Let's let's talk, work from home. Is Metta Graham primarily work from home or have you gone work from home as a result of, of the pandemic?
[00:29:14] Sherri Douville: [00:29:14] Absolutely. So we we've always been. distributed, ever since I became CEO, one of the first things I did was close the office because I thought for the size of our workforce, I really, you know, wanted to push the cost down to the steads. and so we've always been working at ways to enable a distributed workforce and planning to go international and having collaborators that are international.
[00:29:40] It just makes sense for us, right.
[00:29:43] Bill Russell: [00:29:43] Is that hard to do? A lot of healthcare organizations are, I wouldn't say struggling. They wouldn't say struggling. I might say struggling with this concept of remote workforce, you saw Epic try to bring their employees back. And Judy appropriately said, you know, Hey, we're missing some of [00:30:00] the magic.
[00:30:01] That was Epic because we're not running into each other in the halls. And. You know, and, and Apple made their spaceship. And the reason I made that was to, to facilitate those kinds of things for organizations that are maybe doing this for the first time or managers that are doing this for the first time, how do you do this?
[00:30:19] Well, how do you manage to productivity levels that you want to maintain the culture you want to. And, and I, I don't know, just how do you balance all that and, and move the organization forward.
[00:30:34] Sherri Douville: [00:30:34] Not by yourself. I'd say that I, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta work with your team and make sure that, you know, you're on the same page, you know, with expectations around hours, around one-on-one times.
[00:30:47]and then, and then it's all about developing the relationships. And so I, I have really radical ideas about leadership, which I'm putting forth. Together with some other researchers and other leaders and various [00:31:00] healthcare, medical device, biotech and health systems. And it's coming out in a book called a mobile computing in medicine, overcoming people, culture and governance, and we're actually launching it at him.
[00:31:10] So maybe that's, I'm promoting hands. I'm very excited about it. And, but, but I, my point of view is being gen X and basically being born with a computer in my hand, to me, I, I. I think remote work is the future, especially since I do have a lot of collaborators that are international and, and it does that make sense all the time to get on a plane, even if the plane is safe.
[00:31:32] And so, in terms of a first time manager looking for a way to promote teamwork and relationships, there's three tools I would suggest are regular one-on-ones. the other one is a book called measure what matters it's objectives and key results. And, and so as long as people care about each other and you have objectives you're working towards, they will deliver for the other people.
[00:31:56] So you want to build strong relationships, you can execute on those key results. [00:32:00] And then the third thing that, that I've been lucky to have a lot of mentors. and various parts of the ecosystem is to have a chance to be involved with different conferences, to, you know, right. To edit this book, to work on technical standards.
[00:32:15] And I always include colleagues in that work. And so it develops them. it also improves our relationship, helps us learn things, you know, together that, that we would necessarily learn. And so in terms of keeping a remote workforce, Motivated engaged and developing. I think that's what I would suggest.
[00:32:35] Bill Russell: [00:32:35] That's fantastic. So you have a book coming out, next year at HIMS that's, that's exciting. That's some great stuff that you just shared the and measure. What matters I think is that's probably one of the top books I've read in the last year is the measure. What matters book? That's a. it really is exceptional.
[00:32:55] So Sherry, thanks. Thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate
[00:32:58] Sherri Douville: [00:32:58] it. Oh, it [00:33:00] was my pleasure. And honor. Thank you for having me.
[00:33:02] Bill Russell: [00:33:02] I, I, you know, I'll let you have the last word. Is there anything we didn't cover that we, we probably should talk
[00:33:07] Sherri Douville: [00:33:07] about? Well, it's something you brought up in the email. So I wanted to go ahead and address it for you and your daughters.
[00:33:14] And you can decide whether it's appropriate for, for a bigger audience, right? They, it was centered around how I'm able to do this. And so I wanted to. To just return back to your support structure. So I don't, I am not a single person. I'm a node in a network, you know, that allows me to move forward and what I consider to be a movement.
[00:33:33] And so I would just consider talking to your daughters about, you know, who's on their team, how did it, they build their team and start, start that really early on. And then, and then when you talk about, you know, who the spouses, you know, whenever I talk to anybody, the successful woman, that's always one of the top, Factors into, into whether or not they were able to be successful.
[00:33:55]and so selecting the right. Yeah. and then having that mindset of content set [00:34:00] negotiation, you know, because like I said, it was women. We have a lot of, different, stakeholders. That that have either different expectations or different insecurities that they may try to project onto us. And it's really up to us to define our path.
[00:34:14] I think you said, write your own story. and so this is just an extension from a woman's point of view of how you go about writing that story. And I just, I'm passionate about just telling women about it because I feel like a lot of times women are looking for approval or, or looking for somebody else's path and that's just not the way it works.
[00:34:34] Bill Russell: [00:34:34] Yeah. And, and we are, somebody once said, you know, you're only as good as the people that around you, that you talk to on an ongoing basis. And actually that's a generalized quote of something more specific. Like, you know, the 10 people you talk to the most will determine who you become and what you look like.
[00:34:53] And I think that's so true. And I think that's what you're describing is. We are the people we allow into our lives, the people we [00:35:00] interact with an ongoing basis and the people we choose to, to, to spend our lives with. But
[00:35:07] Sherri Douville: [00:35:07] you're also negotiating with them, right. Because we all grew up in a contract and we're growing and we're moving forward in an evolving world, you know?
[00:35:14] So just one, small examples, just, you know, negotiating with my husband and the way I suggest to women to do that is to look at your life together, like a portfolio of activities, and then make sure that you're clear on your priorities. Kind of like, okay, ours. Right? And then you're, you're, you're saying together, like what's important.
[00:35:31] What's not important. And you'd be surprised sometimes what you assume is important to your spouse. It might not be. And we found that a few and it really has helped, you know, move the needle on stress management and prioritization. and so I, I, I suggest that, I mean, very simple example, and I think it's important for women right now.
[00:35:51] The women in the pandemic had been slammed with this new order of magnitude of domestic overhead. I don't know if you've heard about that or talked to anybody [00:36:00] about it recently. but you know, with kids at home, we don't have kids, but you know, for a variety of reasons, cause you're not going out to dinner, you know, you're not doing takeout and all of that.
[00:36:09]and so one of the adaptations we made was, there's an amazing woman nearby. it's not expensive, so it doesn't cost us more really than buying our own high quality food. And so I looked at my husband and I'm like, look, we used to go out, you know, X number of times a week. I'm like, do you, does it matter if somebody else made the food?
[00:36:27] Like, I don't need to. He's like, no, but you know what I mean? Like as a woman, even gen X, I've kind of had a pause at the beginning, like, Oh, where am I? You know, D being who I'm supposed to be, you know, somebody else makes our food, you know what I mean? And I'm just honest about that because I think women in general, we need to be honest with ourselves about how we spend our time and how we negotiate that with people that, that we're in partnership with.
[00:36:53] Bill Russell: [00:36:53] there's, I really appreciate you sharing, all the things that you have shared. And I don't do this to my daughters often, but [00:37:00] I'm. Probably going to coach them into listening to this podcast. They hear their dad's voice and they want, they want to turn it off.
[00:37:08] Sherri Douville: [00:37:08] I don't think that's true, but that's such an honor.
[00:37:11] Thank you. Thank you so much.
[00:37:13] Bill Russell: [00:37:13] Well, thanks for your time. And, yeah, I look forward to catching up with you at hymns. When you release your new book
[00:37:19] Sherri Douville: [00:37:19] be fun. Likewise. Thank you, bill.
[00:37:21] Bill Russell: [00:37:21] That's all for this week. Special. Thanks to our sponsors, VMware Starburst advisors, scale and healthcare, health lyrics, serious health care pro talent advisors and health next for choosing to invest in developing the next generation of health leaders.
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