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November 17: Today on the Community channel, it’s an Interview in Action live from CHIME’s Fall Forum with Paddy Padmanabhan, CEO & Founder of Damo Consulting. Has digital transformation evolved to focus on current economical challenges in healthcare? What decisions are the leaders in digital maturity having to face? What are the three models of digital leadership and how do they work?

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Transcript

This transcription is provided by artificial intelligence. We believe in technology but understand that even the smartest robots can sometimes get speech recognition wrong.

interview in action from the:

All right, here we are from Chime, and we're with Paddy Padmanabhan with Damo Consulting. It's great to see you, man. You look great. You look really healthy.

Thank you. Very good to see you too. It's been what? It's been a while.

It has, it's been, at least, let me think about this. Was it vibe? Did we see each other? Possibly. But since then, you went on went on a little vacation. you seem to be taking care of yourself. I saw some of the pictures from your retreat and whatnot. Yeah.

Yeah. So firstly the travel seems to be back. It seems like. I'm doing a lot more travel than I used to, especially in the last few months. And you're right, I did travel overseas. I spent some time at an Iowa River retreat in India, and that's I think what you're referring to.

Yeah. And I saw you were meeting with your team. You have a team over there as well.

That's, So I met with a team in India, so it was great. I was meeting them after three. It was great to meet them in person. And it's really, you know, the bonding and everything is really fantastic. It's a great feeling.

It's, it's amazing for me too cause we have we have eight people on staff and they're all over the country and we have yet to have all of them in the same place together.

And so I'm, I'm looking forward to, to making that happen sometimes soon. I wanna talk to you about digital health, digital transformation of health. Are we still using those words, digital transformation?

t's been an interesting year,:

Has the digital transformation conversation changed to really focus on efficiencies and focus on I, efficiencies is probably the best word if I thought about it, but just the challenges that health systems are having with the economy.

Well, depending on. What do you mean by efficiency? If you're talking about operating efficiencies in terms of getting staff productivity, staff efficiency, Yeah. It's certainly a component of that, that's more to do with automation and things like that, especially in a labor constrained marketplace.

But I think efficiency in terms of engaging with patients better, delivering care in a more efficient way, providing access in a more efficient way, giving patients the experiences they want in a more efficient way. Yeah, it efficiencies in those contexts I think are just as important if not more important this year.

Are we seeing the integrated experience finally come to fruition? You know, it used to be, hey, we had to call here to figure out if who we could see. Then we went over here and we saw that person and then we had to, you know, it was just very disjointed. Are we starting to see that whole thing start to integrate on a digital platform?

I don't think so. I think it is work in progress. I think that, that holy grail of. Integrating the physical and the digital experiences in a seamless way so that you can actually follow a patient from one modality to another in a real time seamless way. I don't think we are there yet, but that effort is underway at a, at a lot of health systems.

And that was one of the things that we discovered. You know, we just did our digital maturity awards program. And we announced all the award winners and the leaders, and one of the things we saw was that the leaders, the absolute leaders in digital maturity are focusing on problems like this.

It's very hard, very gnarly, but they are putting in effort to tackling some of these, you know, I'll give you an example. At a very foundational layer, having a consumer data platform, being able to identify your patient slash. Across different modalities and across different sites of care in a reliable way is a huge task for most health systems.

Most health systems don't have this golden record for, whatever it needs, but that kind of effort, you know, the leading health systems of putting money into, because they realize that these are infrastructure and foundational things that will eventually set you up for the kind of experiences that you just described. The hybrid.

You know, it's, it's interesting in the marketing world as I've delved into this marketing world, there are so many tools that tells you, you know, when a person comes to your website and when they click on your emails and all that, so you have an you have an idea of how they encounter you, where they encounter you, and you can optimize those encounters.

Can we, at this point outside the emr, can we map out like the different places that people have encountered our health? And the kind of experience they're receiving across that.

Partly, I don't think anyone has fixed it to an extent that it feels like an Amazon or an Apple-like experience, but they're getting there.

And the fact of the matter is that the single I, you know, the unique identifier for the patient, it doesn't exist in most health systems. So you have to get that right. Only then will you be able to move in the direction of saying, I can track my patient. My web and the mobile and all of that. You know, right now I think it is still in progress.

Now, the marketing side of it is a somewhat, you know, it's, it's its own close loop, right? But you now need to integrate it with, let's say, a CRM type program, which is really about patient engagement. You're existing patient. Traditionally, marketing is about bringing new patients into the system. Patient engagement is.

Serving your existing patients, maybe selling more services to them, making sure they stay in the network, making sure they're getting all their preventative care and everything taken care of for the two to come together, all the data sources must be perfectly in sick and that is not quite where it should be or could be in my, in my view.

So talk to me about the digital maturity awards. Where did that.

So we have a digital maturity model that we've been using in our company for the last few years is a Dgm four stage digital maturity model. And a lot of health systems have used the model to really do self-assessments of where they are with regards to their peers in the industry.

So it's a four stage model, depending upon where you, you know, where you land with your overall scoring, there's a scoring model behind it. You'll be in one of the four stages. So that's the first thing that the model tells you. The second thing it tells you is we share the benchmark. And anonymized, of course, of all the other health systems that have taken the maturity assessment.

And so you'll know where you stand relative to your peers in the industry, and we can actually slice it down to similar sized organizations or similar type organizations. So that's what we've been doing for a few years. And this year we actually launched an awards program by using the maturity model in the framework as a basis to really identify the leaders in the.

The ones that have made the most progress and the ones that have had remarkable success with digital programs relative to others in the industry. So that's what we did. We completed this last quarter, we just announced our about nine leaders in honor. We can find all the inform our website Geisinger, Providence, Northwell. They, they came out to be the leaders.

That's fantastic. What's some examples of the things that they are doing that other systems might be able to.

The first thing that I would start with is that they have a really, really robust governance model. What it means is that they have a digital leader or leaders working very closely and very tightly together in all cases working directly for the ceo.

So they are one level below the executive leadership, and they're all pulling together in one direction. There are other attributes of governance model that they all have in place. They all have a document. Digital strategy and roadmap. They have board level approvals for multiyear transformational budgets that they spend and they report back to the board on.

And they, you know, they use their road mapping and, and a very structured framework for engaging with a handful of strategic technology partnerships with enterprise class platforms. But they also know how to harness innovation from the. Ecosystem. Cause most health systems are confused about the start of ecosystem.

They don't know who to talk to. They don't know who's real and who is not. The leading health systems know, and they know how to find out. And then of course, the last thing I would say is data and analytics. All of without fail, all of these leading organizations have made greater progress with their data and analytics programs than the others. So that's kind of these, these are some of the defining attributes

So when you go into a health system, do you start with the assessment and then d. What kind of plan you go to from, from there?

Often, but not always. We always offer it to our clients and they almost always take the assessment, but it's not a prerequisite. They don't have to start there Very often we'll go into a health system and do an engagement, and then they do the assessment sort of a little later. But we like to start with the assessment because that's really what gives us a foundational understanding of where they are in their digital maturity.

📍 📍 All right. We'll get back to our show in just a minute. We have a webinar coming up on December 7th, and I'm looking forward to that webinar. It is on how to modernize the data platform within healthcare, the modern data platform within healthcare. And I'm really looking forward to the conversation. We just recorded five pre episodes for that. And so they're gonna air on Tuesday and Thursdays leading up to the episode. And we have great conversation about the different aspects, different use cases around the modern data platform and how agility becomes so key and data quality and all those things. So great conversation. Looking forward to that. Wednesday, December 7th at one o'clock. Love to have you join us. We're gonna have health system leaders from Memorial Care and others. CDW is going to have some of their experts on this show as well. So check that out. You can go to our website thisweekhealth.com, top right hand corner. You'll see the upcoming webinars. Love to have you be a part of it. If you have a question coming into it, one of the things we do is we collect the questions in the signup form because we want to make sure that we incorporate that into the discussion. So hope to see you there. Now, back to the show.

📍 📍 Who should the digital leader? be Is the age old question Is there a separate person than the cio? Is there a separate person than the innovation officer? I mean, what, who should own digital?

I'll tell you who they are today and who they should be is I think a question that is still being grappled with. So, and we started this a lot, we did a lot of research on this. There are three models today. One is what you described, CIO is also the CDO that I think is true in the majority of. cases It's anecdotally that it feels that way. The second model is where the CIO and the CDO are peers reporting up directly in both of them reporting up into the CEO and the CDO could be a clinician.

A clinician who has a clinical role, but is also doing the CDO role, or the CDO could also be an operations person. Right? The third model is where the CDO reports up into a CIO or some other operating. leader Instead of directly into the ceo, sometimes the CEO can be two or three levels down in the organization.

Who should it be? You know, that's the question that I haven't found a definitive answer to. There are successes in all three models today. If you look across.

Do you think it depends on the size of the organization?

Definitely. It depends on the size of the organization. If you're a very small organization, you cannot really afford a full-time cdo. I wouldn't even advise it. But if you're a very large organization, very. You definitely need a full-time cdo and you need that CDO to be visible at the highest levels in the organization and empower him or her with the resources, the authority, and the budgets.

So it's interesting cuz when we think of I think the one model I think about is Ascension in Devon, right? So the CEO is really in charge of all technology initiatives as well as investments and, and those kinds of things. Yeah. And the CIO reports.

That is a really unusual model where the CIO reports well, you could, you could say that in the case of noon you could say that Angela actually effectively both the CIO and the cdo, even though she has individuals reporting that, But

she has an information officer that reports her,

Correct. Correct. That's a little, that's a little unusual. Yeah.

And, and the same thing at Ascension that they went there. The thing about that's interesting to me about Ascension is so Eduardo shows up at JP Morgan. . It's one of the only people on the technology side that shows up. So JP Morgan, you'll have 24, 25 companies get up there.

Ceo, cfo, present their financials, their strategy and initiatives. Ascension's the only one who really brings a technology person. Mayo sometimes does, but pr primarily it's Ascension. And he will get up and talk literally about strategy. We are looking at this kind of business change, this kind of business model, this kind of whatever. It's almost a, a meld of digital officer and.

Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, Eduardo came from outside the healthcare industry. He did. Which is, that again, is another unique dynamic, right? People who come from outside the healthcare industry, they tend to have a very different perspective on healthcare coming in from the outside. If you, if you go back two or three years, there was a wave of executives coming in from outside the healthcare industry into these cdo. We have also lately seen a wave of departures of those same, same individuals. Yes. So

I'm, I'm one of the departures, by the way, . Thanks for bringing that up. No, but it is, that's a huge learning curve to learn healthcare. I mean, you may know the technology and you wouldn't get hired into that role if you didn't know the technology, but to learn the, the business of healthcare is a significant learning group. Not that it can't be done and clearly it's just,

I call it the physics of healthcare. Just like the physics of the world, gravity is a force you cannot battle with. You cannot get around it, right? You have to work with it. Gravity is gravity. The healthcare has its own gravitation of forces. You know, you have one ethic you have compliance. You have cms the whole reimbursement models. So there are these, you know, I call these. Of healthcare. If you don't understand the physics of healthcare, you're gonna have to, You'll struggle a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. It does take a little while. Yeah. Well, Patty, I wanna thank you for your time.

Always great to catch up. As always. Great catching up. Have a good show 📍 here.

Thank you.

Another great interview. I wanna thank everybody who spent time with us at the conferences. I love hearing from people on the front lines and it is Phenomen. That they have taken the time to share their wisdom and experience with the community, which is greatly appreciated. We also want to thank our channel sponsors one more time, who invest in our mission to develop the next generation of health leaders. They are Olive, Rubrik, 📍 trx, Mitigate, and F5. Thanks for listening. That's all for now.

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